The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Taylor Reed Audience Dismember! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
paraguppie
View Profile
Elite user
Forsyth Montana!
411 Posts

Profile of paraguppie
Hey all,

I just got back from Branson where I picked up my Taylor Reed version of the Audience Dismember. Taylor will "gut" your regular Bill Smith version and customize it to look like the one you see on his Youtube videos!

To me the "box" under the girl always looked gaffed. Taylor takes all of that out and at the same time makes it so the girls legs go WAY higher when she is "cut". I'm more than happy to answer questions about the prop, but I will not be tipping the inner workings.

I have not gotten to perform this yet as I just got back, but I wanted to let everyone out there know that Taylor did an amazing job on this illusion! He was ahead of schedule, great with communications and really easy to work with.

Taylor, thanks for the great prop and all the tips that go with it. I wish you the best of luck in your new theatre (which I got a tour of!). I look forward to working with you again soon!

Keith Raymond
Check me out at www.magickeith.com
profl
View Profile
New user
57 Posts

Profile of profl
Quote:
On 2010-06-17 09:50, paraguppie wrote:

I just got back from Branson where I picked up my Taylor Reed version of the Audience Dismember. Taylor will "gut" your regular Bill Smith version and customize it to look like the one you see on his Youtube videos!

To me the "box" under the girl always looked gaffed. Taylor takes all of that out.... Keith Raymond


So much for respecting the genius and artistry of illusion designers & builders. In the recent topic on the high prices of illusions, most everyone went on and on about how designers and builders were true geniuses and artists and only their work was worth anything. Is gutting their work the kind honor & of respect they deserve? Does anyone know who can broaden the simile on the Mona Lisa? I'm sure the Louvre wants a better smile on her.
w_s_anderson
View Profile
Inner circle
The United States
1201 Posts

Profile of w_s_anderson
I try to change up my illusions so they don't look like the same stuff everyone else is performing. What is wrong with that?
sb
View Profile
Special user
567 Posts

Profile of sb
It would be interesting for Bill Smith or Craig Dickens, or any of the other pro builders on the Café' to chime in on this. Or for an inventor like Jim Steinmeyer or Kevin James to chime in would be cool too. I bet they would agree that changing things up would be fine by them.

I see nothing wrong with changing the illusion, to make it more your own.

sb
reedrc
View Profile
Inner circle
1331 Posts

Profile of reedrc
SB: I'm no Steinmeyer or KJ . . . . .but from experience some thoughts

Although I do agree with you profl, if effects are not evolved
and pushed to their limit magic will never change or evolve. You make an
interesting point. And some thoughts to ponder. When is it time to say “this
effect is finished” and when to say its done. I’d say it depends on the piece.
And the audience’s reaction to the effect. My personal opinion and my
observation of the matter is an effect is never finished and is in constant
motion and evolution at all times. I’ve designed and built many large stage
illusions. (As well as small ones) One of which probably a handful of times.
If the effect had not been re-addressed over and over it’d not be the miracle
it is today. Unlike a painting. Which is a stationary piece of art. Magic is a
malleable and in constant state of flux. A good performer should always
be in the pursuit of evolution originality and perfection of whatever piece
he or she is doing. But. When is it time to say one is finished? I feel its
the million dollar question.

Example: In regards to FLYING. I know that the original concept was a far
cry from the final piece. I understand that countless hours and headache
were spent getting the piece right. They were getting to a point where
it just was not working at all. Something simple, and effective was tried
after re-evaluating the situation - and a masterpiece was born. Constant
and pursuit and relentless pursuit of perfection. And that was only the
beginning of the journey. Touring, audience testing, constant filming
and re-evaluating performance and workings - years of evolution and
creation. Thousands and thousands of man hours and hundreds of
thousands of dollars in fabrication, gear and other related items.
If DC or another performer went with the original concept - left it
the way it was it would certainly not be the masterpiece it'd be today.

Another: THE FAN , also went through a great deal of trial. Over a million
was spent on the prop and its development (rumor has it) . Hundreds of
man hours in choreography, staging and testing. Then audience testing.
Its still being changed and modified. (now just done with david and not
two people) Again- other fan illusions - Wyrick, Jet engine props , don't
have HALF the power THE FAN does. Why is this? Time, Energy. And
pursuit of relentless perfection & Evolution.

I'm currently building a new effect. I'd been developing it and working on
the concept for years. Years and years. Got to the point where I could take it
no further. I shelved it for a year. I got married. Got inspired to work on it
again. Drew up the final drawing. I had the look. Now I had to actually design
the thing. Another year went by. The drawings were finished. Now into
pre-visualization. Was and is the most detail I had ever dived into pre-fabrication.

Finally selling the concept. Just to now it'd collectively taken five or six years just
getting the look and the routine correct. It'd been an effect that was special to
me just like fine wine sitting in a barrel waiting for perfect flavor. If I had rushed
it or tried to make it something it was not It would never have been what it was.

Now to the builder. Discovering changes. Structural elements. More changes for
client budget reasons and practicality for touring. A reality of the business.
Always happens when fabrication begins and things evolve.

The thing has not even hit the stage yet. And its been years into development
A few months in fabrication. We'll have the prop in a warehouse for testing.
Then more testing with tech rehearsal, lights, sound, choreography. Possible
modifications and structural changes to the prop additions, removals. Electrical,
physical modifications and changes.

Then audience testing. More changes. More conversation, evolution. Pursuit of perfection.
Could be another few years to perfect it before the owner chooses to put it on TV.

My observation as its literally happening right now to me, as I'm observing the process.

I realize I have not really provided an answer of when to stop the pursuit of relentless
perfection. I'm not sure it ever stops to be honest. As long as the audience is truly
blown away and effected emotionally and on the surface level, and the artist
is always striving for the best in what they do. To be original. To be themselves.
To push the envelope of the magic, to push themselves and the people that work
with them to do things even they thought was impossible.

Our art is a malleable, ever changing entity. Never stationary and will always have
something new and original. Different. Things will be evolved, and changed. Made better.
Sometimes things are overdone - over-thought. Where something should remain simple.
I suppose that's the dichotomy isn't it. . .
Kind Regards

Ryan C. Reed
Founder, Illusion Entertainment

Illusion & Theatrical Consultant, Design, Fabrication & Digital Wizard

Illusion Entertainment
Facebook
TaylorReed
View Profile
Special user
Branson, MO
722 Posts

Profile of TaylorReed
Thank you Keith. I'm glad you are happy with the prop and I hope it serves you well. It's one of the best Illusions that I've ever had in reguards to being a reputation maker with the lay public.. Jim Steinmeyer is my favorite inventor of magic and he's a great guy. Bill Smith is an excellent builder. Bill says it's not a problem that I do the rebuild for people that want them as long as they are built by him originally. I'm a full time magician and I'm not looking to become a magic builder, but I do build a few illusions per year.

You can't please everyone in our business. My job is to entertain my audience and fool them badly as Jim would say. I did the changes 11 yrs ago and it's served me well. Some may like it and others may not. That's ok. I find that the lay public is very blown away with this version because they know for sure that the girl isn't a stooge.

Even Lance has added a great door to this illusion.. (Change can be good)

Taylor
www.taylorreed.com
www.usedmagicillusions.com
taylor@taylorreed.com
(979)482-0714
See: The Magic and Comedy of Taylor Reed, Live in Branson, Mo
w_s_anderson
View Profile
Inner circle
The United States
1201 Posts

Profile of w_s_anderson
Great post Ryan, I couldn't agree with you more. Now on the flip side....here is a live and learn lesson. Before you go "improving" a prop I would advise on getting multiple opinions first. I have a "Modern Art" illusion that has undergone a couple of changes. I made the changes first and then asked what people thought. Jim Steinmeyer flat out said that it was stupid, so did Mark Kalin, and so did Joanie Spina....Now it's pretty tough to try and argue your point with such esteemed critisism. So before I made the next change I consulted before hand....and I think I have made a definate improvement to the Modern Art illusion.
JoyJoy
View Profile
Special user
Germany
508 Posts

Profile of JoyJoy
Ryan - thanks for your great post. Brainfood.
profl
View Profile
New user
57 Posts

Profile of profl
Quote:
On 2010-06-18 00:11, TaylorReed wrote in part:
.... Jim Steinmeyer is my favorite inventor of magic and he's a great guy. Bill Smith is an excellent builder. Bill says it's not a problem that I do the rebuild for people that want them as long as they are built by him originally. ....


And TaylorReed what was Jim Steinmeyer's response when you asked him permission to correct your perceived design flaws in his creation before you "gutted" his invention?
sb
View Profile
Special user
567 Posts

Profile of sb
Ryan,

Its interesting that the examples you bring up are Copperfields. Whenever DC would come up with a new illusion in his show, I would watch it and wonder what "would" I do different if I were him. The answer was almost (actually, I think it was in every single case) always: "nothing!"

DC works his routines and props to the point of perfection. Everything has a reason. And that reason is to make the magic the best it can be, and to leave the audience in total disbelief.

When explaining to my crew or dancers how the end product of one of our routines should look, I used to say I wanted the routine to be "Copperfielized" - basically meaning that it is the best it can be.

As a whole magic community, I really think we should all try to do this with everything we do. BTW, I am not sure if any of the routines I do are 100% to where they could be. Magic is a work in progress.

-scott
TaylorReed
View Profile
Special user
Branson, MO
722 Posts

Profile of TaylorReed
Profl, I have talked with Jim about this a few times over the years. He knows that I like to remodle illusions and he says that once you buy an illusion you can push it off the back of a truck if you would like... If you spend the big bucks buying any Illusion you can repaint it cut it up or use it for fire wood.

Copperfield, S and R and many of the greats have been doing this very thing for years. They buy an illusion and then have there team rethink it and rebuild it to fit there needs.. Tim White that worked for Copperfield for years once said that from the time they got an illusion to the time they played with it and then got it in the show that the illusion would be lucky to even have an original bolt in it before show time...

Just like people buy cars and put different engines in it or a new paint job to be different.

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to be original... That's what our art is all about. Other wise everyone is all doing the same thing.. I try to change my stuff so that I'm not like every other show in town..

Some people may think that it's an insult to make a change to an illusion, but I would disagree. I have given Jim plenty of money over the years and he's still my favorite magic inventor. I'm sure I'll be buying many more of his effects over the years.

Penndragons changed pole levi and magicians have been doing this for years and yrs.. this isn't an insult to the inventor. They are just making the changes that they have created.

If everyone thought like this, we'd all still be driving 57 Chevy's...

Taylor
www.taylorreed.com
www.usedmagicillusions.com
taylor@taylorreed.com
(979)482-0714
See: The Magic and Comedy of Taylor Reed, Live in Branson, Mo
reedrc
View Profile
Inner circle
1331 Posts

Profile of reedrc
Taylor,
Any possibility of seeing a photo or two of the mods you did to the prop in question? Cheers,

~R
Kind Regards

Ryan C. Reed
Founder, Illusion Entertainment

Illusion & Theatrical Consultant, Design, Fabrication & Digital Wizard

Illusion Entertainment
Facebook
TaylorReed
View Profile
Special user
Branson, MO
722 Posts

Profile of TaylorReed
I didn't take any photos of it, but I'm sure Keith could.

My prop is in storage and it looks just like mine if you've ever seen mine on youtube.

Thanks
Taylor
www.taylorreed.com
www.usedmagicillusions.com
taylor@taylorreed.com
(979)482-0714
See: The Magic and Comedy of Taylor Reed, Live in Branson, Mo
reedrc
View Profile
Inner circle
1331 Posts

Profile of reedrc
(Just to clarify) I was only asking because I love looking at new or improved gear. One of those folks that love
anything out of the norm in magic, like to learn what people are changing, and learn from those changes Smile
Hope that makes sense.
Kind Regards

Ryan C. Reed
Founder, Illusion Entertainment

Illusion & Theatrical Consultant, Design, Fabrication & Digital Wizard

Illusion Entertainment
Facebook
profl
View Profile
New user
57 Posts

Profile of profl
Quote:
On 2010-06-18 11:22, TaylorReed wrote:
Profl, I have talked with Jim about this a few times over the years. He knows that I like to remodle illusions and he says that once you buy an illusion you can push it off the back of a truck if you would like... If you spend the big bucks buying any Illusion you can repaint it cut it up or use it for fire wood.


Taylor Reed, since Jim Steinmeyer approves and all seem to endorse it, can I conclude that so long as one pays for any illusion one can do anything they want to do with it including "pushing of the back of a truck? " This is certainly the legal position. Some years ago an artist was in the courts because someone who owned one of his painted refrigerators was planning to cut out the panels and sell them as 3 individual paintings. His lost the case.

Since you, as your immensely satisfied customers attest, have made substantial improvements to the illusion, why do you not just construct the whole illusion? Don't you now have rights to your new illusion? When I compare modern art with zig zag to me, a no nothing, they look the same excepting zig uses 2 blades and moves the middle of three boxes whereas modern art uses one blade and moves the top of 2 boxes; yet Stienmeyer claims rights to it. What I'm really trying to find out is how much do you have to change an existing illusion before you can claim rights to the improved illusions? Since you mentioned 57 Chevy , can I expand by saying the different year Chevys have distinct rights and apply that reasoning to illusions?

earnestly trying to learn about so called magic ethics,
Richard(USA)

p,s. I wish I were still driving a 57 Chevy! Wikepedia says "the value of meticulously restored '57 Chevy convertibles was as high as $100,000."
paraguppie
View Profile
Elite user
Forsyth Montana!
411 Posts

Profile of paraguppie
Wow, I didn't think I would be starting a war on here, just thanking Taylor for his hard work on my illusion. I thought everyone should know how easy he was to work with and how cool the illusion came out.

I guess I should have started off with "Taylor has Bill Smith's permission..." or something along those lines.

Taylor has bent over backwards to make sure it is okay with Bill and Jim to modify this prop. Taylor and I talked in length about all the modifications and they are ALL WITH BLESSING from the orginal prop builders and inventors.

So enough about "rights" to the prop. Taylor has the ok to modify this prop, end of story.

I will post pics of it when time allows, it's worth seeing!

Truth be told, I always thought the Mona Lisa was ugly!

Keith
Check me out at www.magickeith.com
Falconer
View Profile
Special user
PORTUGAL
576 Posts

Profile of Falconer
Taylor Reed and all freinds in this post

Hi!

I fully agree with changes to the originals provided they pay the rights to the creators for the idea or original concept.

With no offense to the creators, some of his inventions are far more deceptive wiht great changes like Taylor Reed did with his Audience Dis-member.

Falconer
FALCONER
IMAGICIANS.DE facebook falcobook
TaylorReed
View Profile
Special user
Branson, MO
722 Posts

Profile of TaylorReed
Reedrc,, No problem.. I noticed that you don't have a way to PM>>

Taylor
www.taylorreed.com
www.usedmagicillusions.com
taylor@taylorreed.com
(979)482-0714
See: The Magic and Comedy of Taylor Reed, Live in Branson, Mo
reedrc
View Profile
Inner circle
1331 Posts

Profile of reedrc
Your the second person to mention that / any idea how I change that? I got your FB message - sent a reply

- Think I got it is it workin now?
Kind Regards

Ryan C. Reed
Founder, Illusion Entertainment

Illusion & Theatrical Consultant, Design, Fabrication & Digital Wizard

Illusion Entertainment
Facebook
Chezaday
View Profile
Inner circle
Naperville, IL
1668 Posts

Profile of Chezaday
I think a little fine tuning is to be expected with many illusions. Each performer has different demands with props and I've done work on just about all my pieces.

That's about as far as that goes though, when you start reworking the whole thing .. you're messing with an artists work. I would almost look at it as an insult if my illusion was re-worked into something else.

You have to look at it from the designers view ..

Steve
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Taylor Reed Audience Dismember! (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2017 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL