|
|
Go to page 1~2 [Next] | ||||||||||
Rocketeer Special user Westchester, NY 965 Posts |
Karl Zener was an associate of JB Rhine who developed the famous five-symbol "ESP deck" that so many of us use in one way or another.
I always pronounced the name as if it were spelled "zenner". That common pronunciation may be why some people misspell the name "Zenner". Lately I've been wondering if the name should not be pronounced as if it were spelled "zeener." Does anyone have a definitive explanation for how the name should be pronounced and can you back it up with a citation? Curiously, Rocky
I'm selling my hardcover autographed limited edition copy of Jerome Finley's "Thought Veil"
PM me for info. |
|||||||||
Pit Boss Special user 573 Posts |
I can't verify this, but I believe it is pronounced ZAYner.
JD |
|||||||||
Michael Daniels Inner circle Isle of Man 1609 Posts |
This is a tricky one. I have taught parapsychology at University level for over 20 years and have never come across a definitive answer to this. Most parapsychologists I have met tend to pronounce it Zenner, but I think this is probably because they don't know any different. The Zener diode (named after Clarence Zener) is, I understand, pronounced Zeener.
Duke University (where both Rhine and Karl Zener worked) has a Zener Auditorium, named after the psychologist. Maybe someone who has connections with Duke University may know how this is pronounced. Mike |
|||||||||
Frank Douglas Special user 555 Posts |
I've heard it pronounced 3 ways. ZEEner, ZAYner and Zeh-ner
The Rhine Ins. website has historical video clips and they pronounce it Zeh-ner. Cheers Frank |
|||||||||
Rocketeer Special user Westchester, NY 965 Posts |
The Rhine Institute sells Zener decks. (At the absurd price of $25 a piece. They're non-profit so I guess you could write it off.)
So I decided to phone them. I got a recording that did not mention Zener at all! Oh well. I guess I could call up Duke and just ask whoever answers how do you pronounce the name of Room 130 (the Zener Auditorium) in the Sociology/Psychology Building.
I'm selling my hardcover autographed limited edition copy of Jerome Finley's "Thought Veil"
PM me for info. |
|||||||||
Frank Douglas Special user 555 Posts |
Rocketeer
Look at some of the historical videos about the Rhine Inst. Zener is used several times. Cheers Frank |
|||||||||
Frank Douglas Special user 555 Posts |
Here's a link to a video about the history of the Rhine Institute, Featuring Rhine's daughter, discussing her father's research, the Institute, and how he got started.
She pronounces it ZEEner. 70 YEARS OF HISTORY (RHINE INSTITUTE) Zener is discussed around the 7 minute mark. Cheers Frank |
|||||||||
muse Special user Scotland 925 Posts |
To muddy the waters further, if it is a name of German origin (as the "Karl" would corroborate), perhaps it should be pronounced TSEH-ner
|
|||||||||
Rocketeer Special user Westchester, NY 965 Posts |
Thanks Frank!
I could have been lazy and just taken your word for it but I did watch the video and the "zeener" pronunciation is given at 7:05 into the film and again a few seconds later. And muse, I agree, if he was indeed a native German then TSEH-ner would be the way he would have pronounced his own name. If he was second or third generation, then the family probably caved and anglicized it to "zeener". I'm of Polish descent and my last name starts with "WR" which is pronounced "VR" in Polish. My grandfather was born in Poland but my father and everybody else in the family just let the W fall silent, as in "wring" or "wrought".
I'm selling my hardcover autographed limited edition copy of Jerome Finley's "Thought Veil"
PM me for info. |
|||||||||
jonnyboy Inner circle San Diego 1021 Posts |
In electronics, the well-known Zener diodes are pronounced ZEEner.
|
|||||||||
ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
Zenerhyme [by Doug Dyment]
The insight for Joseph Banks Rhine's Choice of perfect E.S.P. designs Stemmed from the demeanor Of Karl Edward Zener ... Square, circle, star, cross, wavy lines.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
|
|||||||||
Michael Daniels Inner circle Isle of Man 1609 Posts |
Nice Doug. Here's my attempt:
When asked by Joseph Banks Rhine, For ESP cards by design, An artistic Karl Zener, Used shapes bold and cleaner, And easy to see in the mind. Mike |
|||||||||
John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12945 Posts |
While seeking an esp design
I came across Joseph banks rhine He had hired a building maintenance cleaner A smart man by the name of Karl Zener In his spare time, he worked for this man Rhine Making cards that were simple and leaner |
|||||||||
DocBenWiz Special user Meridian, Idaho 992 Posts |
Hopefully in the UK it is NOT pronounced "Zed-eener"...!
"Pay no attention to that strange man behind the curtain" (it's only "Doc Benjamin from the Amazing Wizardelia Wagon")
|
|||||||||
JustJohn New user 51 Posts |
I'm always surprised to see them in different colors or symbols beyond the star. I'd love to hear thoughts on how that happened.
|
|||||||||
NeverMind Loyal user Right up there. On the stage. 279 Posts |
I heard it being pronounced as ZAKH'NER in Iraq, JAWNER in Somalia, Xi'Neer in Mongolia.
But I think the correct pronunciation is ZENNER
It is better to be trusted than liked.
Under promise. Over perform. |
|||||||||
ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
NeverMind opined:
Quote:
But I think the correct pronunciation is ZENNER Nope. The traditional (German) pronunciation of the surname is ZAY-ner. But Karl, the Psychology department he chaired at Duke, the facility named after him, his other colleagues, his family, his friends, and surviving audio recordings all use the ZEE-ner pronunciation.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
|
|||||||||
Thomas Henry Inner circle Minnesota 1394 Posts |
Hello All,
Doug is correct. I never could figure out where that nonsense of "ZEH-ner" came from. A part of my background is in electronics, where the Zener diode is a common component, so from the outset I knew it was pronounced "ZEE-ner." This semiconductor part was invented by the notable physicist Clarence M. Zener, brother of Karl E. Zener. The correct pronunciation is mentioned in the former's New York Times obituary, by the way. Thomas Henry |
|||||||||
NeverMind Loyal user Right up there. On the stage. 279 Posts |
The flexibility of the English Language as a Tool can sometimes be its drawback. I guess it is time for English 2.0 - add a few more letters to the alphabet, maybe or add a couple more rules to the spelling algorithms?
It is better to be trusted than liked.
Under promise. Over perform. |
|||||||||
NeverMind Loyal user Right up there. On the stage. 279 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 27, 2023, Thomas Henry wrote: that's an interesting bit of info, Thomas - that Physicist Clarence and Psychologist Karl are brothers.
It is better to be trusted than liked.
Under promise. Over perform. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » What's the correct pronunciation of Zener? (8 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page 1~2 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |