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sohaib
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The reason I want to start this thread is I saw Alex Elmsley's Dazzle last night on The Tahoe Sessions and I was blown away! This has got to be the best packet trick of all time! Nothing comes close to this! It was beautiful - by far the best packet trick I've ever seen. The whole routine was a beautiful magical moment for me!

You guys ofcourse will have your own favorite! What do you feel is the best packet trick of all time?

- Sohaib
David Dunstan
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NFW by Gary Freed and an effect named 'Reverso' by New Zealand magician David Taylor are my favorite to perform.

Regards,
David
Vlad_77
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Favorite and best and two very different terms.

So I will mention a few favorites since answering what is the "best" is impossible Smile

In no particular order:

Poor Man's Monte (Richard Vollmer in Apocalypse)
Presto Printo (Daryl)
Ambitious Classic (Classic Magic of Larry Jennings)
Lorayne's Ten Card Poker deal
Trost's 8 Card Brainwave
DDLT
Jazz Aces
TranceFusion by Peter Duffie
Frier by Cameron Francis


Not an exhaustive list by ANY means, but, these have served VERY well.

Namaste,
Vlad
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There are 2 things that come to my mind when someone says "Packet Trick". First, a trick that just uses a small packet of normal cards. This would be like Twisting the Aces, Dr. Daley's last trick, Reset etc. And of course there are the marketed packet tricks with gaffs that normally sell for $10-$20. Twisted sister, B'Wave etc. In my regular professional set right now in category #1 are Twister by Chris Kenner, and in category #2, Spin Dr. and Royal Scam by John Bannon are serving me very well.
sohaib
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Quote:
On 2010-08-31 00:22, Vlad_77 wrote:
Favorite and best and two very different terms.

So I will mention a few favorites since answering what is the "best" is impossible Smile

In no particular order:

Poor Man's Monte (Richard Vollmer in Apocalypse)
Presto Printo (Daryl)
Ambitious Classic (Classic Magic of Larry Jennings)
Lorayne's Ten Card Poker deal
Trost's 8 Card Brainwave
DDLT
Jazz Aces
TranceFusion by Peter Duffie
Frier by Cameron Francis


Not an exhaustive list by ANY means, but, these have served VERY well.

Namaste,
Vlad


Very good list Vlad! I'm not familiar with TranceFusion and Frier - I'll check them out!
whitesonora
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I would put two different packet tricks here.

One with non-gaffed cards: The last Trick Of Dr. Daley.
An awesome trick where the magic takes place in the hands of the spectators

One with gaffed cards: "Print" ("L'imprimerie") by Dominique Duvivier
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcg8x0_......creation

This effect blow people away. And you end completely clean

:)
Mark Jarvis
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Emerson and West's Color Monte....Great story and a surprise ending.
Mark Jarvis
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Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2010-08-31 13:22, Mark Jarvis wrote:
Emerson and West's Color Monte....Great story and a surprise ending.


Mark,

It is a great effect. If you ever become a demonstrator in a magic shop, that effect is required learning. It is a guaranteed sale and a good way to upsell to other things.

Namaste,
Vlad
Dougini
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My favorite of all? One I adapted from an effect I bought back in 1989/1990, called, "Done With Mirrors".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOejSe_j6oA

I eventually changed it from all fours, to ace, two, three and four, added a red/blue DB, and changed out the mirror-backed cards with with four different flower picture backs (for the ladies). Then, I changed those for Pepsi, Coke, Sprite, and Dr. Pepper backs. Then, thinking about it, I really couldn't find a logical reason for the change to soda labels.

So, I switched the soda labels for four different beer label cards. So you show that one card at a time turns over with blue backs. I ask the color of the backs, and they say, "blue". I say,"You sure?" Then show red backs. Then, it made sense to end with, "...Don't tell anyone you saw Blue AND Red backs, they'll think you've been drinking!" Then, of course, showing the four beer cards. I've done it that way ever since. I had to buy four decks, just to get the ace, two, three and four! Still, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of that packet trick. Three different card back changes.

"Done With Mirrors", by the way, is now marketed as, "Flipped, Marked & Mirrored", and is available at MJM Magic.

http://www.mjmmagic.com/store/flipped-ma......701.html

Wow, hope this isn't too much information! LOL!

Doug
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As far as gaffed packet tricks, I've always liked
Gypsy Curse by Peter Kane and Bruce Cervon's Dirty Deal
have always been favorites of mine.

There's so many good ones already mentioned.
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Mb217
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I'm a coin guy so what do I know, right?...Smile

For me it's all about simplicity. I don't mind a move or two but all that turning cards over and around, etc. I think confuses the heck out of people more than anything else, IMHO. Smile

I agree with Vlad that to say what's best is Hatfields-McCoys stuff. Favorites is probably the best you can do in all this. With that, I would have to say my favorites are those effects I keep going back to for some reason. I have tried a lot of packet tricks in my life but it's hard to beat tricks like NFW, B'wave and Doc Daley Last Trick for the simplicity and sheer amazement. Smile They are all easy to do (and are made better with good practice) but absolutely kill. All show 4 cards and if you can't handle 4 cards then you should be doing coins or something. Smile

-NFW is just amazing when done well...4 jokers - 4 backs - 4 aces. Just beautiful!

-B'wave is all presentation that leave spec's minds absolutely stunned.

-Doc Daley's LT, done with 4 regular cards, simplistically baffling & elegant.


All 3 have enough little moves to them that make a decent-enough coin guy like myself look like a pretty good card guy too. Who knew? Smile

Honestly, there are hundreds of really good packet tricks. Another good question is which one is the most popular. I would guess that would be the one that the most people have brought and that might not be any of the ones mentioned so far in this string except maybe NFW. Think most card guys might have that or had it by now. But do you think it has sold more than the old Wild Card? Most everybody bought that one as a kid from their local magic shop and they're still buying it today. Smile
*Check out my latest FlySki , Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb Smile
Vlad_77
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Hey Mb217!

You guys in the coin section have been cool enough to put up with my idiocy, and I sense you know a hell of a lot more about cards than you are revealing Smile

I cannot say with any authority whether or not Wild Card is the most popular seller, but, having been a demonstrator in a number of brick and mortar shops, Color Monte seemed to be the "hot" packet effect. I had mentioned in this thread that Color Monte was a must learn in all three shops. I think I burned out on that effect after having to demonstrate it every day, six days a week, but, it IS still fun to do even impromptu.

Wild Card has come a long way as I am sure you know. The original lacked any sort of punch but, magicians have been addressing that and very well! For a brief time, Bannon's Call of the Wild was a VERY hot seller, even though the skill set compared to the regular Wild Card is a tad more advanced. Of course, the wild card plot has translated as I know you DO know to coins VERY beautifully.

I do agree with you 1000% on NFW, and what a lead in to MANY four ace effects, plus, without exposing anything, the "leftover" of NFW gives the worker another powerful weapon always at the ready.

There is one packet trick that I think magicians have had a love/hate affair with, and that is Oil and Water. I think it is a beautiful effect, and routines from Anthony Owen, Rene Lavand, Aldo Colombini, Roy Walton, Simon Lovell, Eddy Taytelbaum (thanks to Tim Feher for pointing this out to me! The handling was in a book that I hadn't realized contained ANY card magic), and so many others have brought this effect more to the fore and out of the realm of a "magician's" effect. In fact, I DO believe I have seen Oil and Water done with coins!! Smile

Namaste,
Vlad
sohaib
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Quote:
On 2010-09-01 21:13, Mb217 wrote:
I'm a coin guy so what do I know, right?...Smile

For me it's all about simplicity. I don't mind a move or two but all that turning cards over and around, etc. I think confuses the heck out of people more than anything else, IMHO. Smile

I agree with Vlad that to say what's best is Hatfields-McCoys stuff. Favorites is probably the best you can do in all this. With that, I would have to say my favorites are those effects I keep going back to for some reason. I have tried a lot of packet tricks in my life but it's hard to beat tricks like NFW, B'wave and Doc Daley Last Trick for the simplicity and sheer amazement. Smile They are all easy to do (and are made better with good practice) but absolutely kill. All show 4 cards and if you can't handle 4 cards then you should be doing coins or something. Smile

-NFW is just amazing when done well...4 jokers - 4 backs - 4 aces. Just beautiful!

-B'wave is all presentation that leave spec's minds absolutely stunned.

-Doc Daley's LT, done with 4 regular cards, simplistically baffling & elegant.


All 3 have enough little moves to them that make a decent-enough coin guy like myself look like a pretty good card guy too. Who knew? Smile

Honestly, there are hundreds of really good packet tricks. Another good question is which one is the most popular. I would guess that would be the one that the most people have brought and that might not be any of the ones mentioned so far in this string except maybe NFW. Think most card guys might have that or had it by now. But do you think it has sold more than the old Wild Card? Most everybody bought that one as a kid from their local magic shop and they're still buying it today. Smile


Dr. Daley's Last Trick is usually the first trick I do when asked to do magic. In my opinion, it's the best/top packet trick done with regular cards! If it's not the first one I go to, then I'll do Spectator Cuts the Aces - Bannon's Final Verdict - then go to it, and then I'll continue with Twisting the Aces and Phil Goldstein's Overture.
Simon Lovell
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Just to note - the biggest selling packet trick of all time, by a huge margin, is Color Monte. From its release way back by Emmerson and West to the present day it pretty much out-sells all the other packet tricks put together. I certainly wish I'd designed and held rights to it!

Just some info from the inside.

All the best to all,

Simon
Mb217
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OK, so Color Monte seems to be the most popular standing the test of time as per the real experiences of Vlad and Simon. Out-selling all the others combined is quite impressive. Funny, I had that trick I remember and never did it much, was never one of my favorites and couldn't possibly be the best, could it? Smile

So Simon, from the inside, just what is the best packet trick of all time? We should be able to get an absolute answer from "the inside," shouldn't we...Heck, we just got one. Smile

If that's just too top secret to let out for you, then what are your 3 favorites and why? Smile
*Check out my latest FlySki , Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb Smile
Paul
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Color Monte may not be the best packet trick of all time, but as discussed in "Small But Deadly" (my first book on packet tricks) is is without doubt the best seller. And just as Simon Says, it would be nice to have had a hand in it. Or a penny for every one sold Smile

"Best" is really difficult to determine. From whose point of view? And what may be best for some performing conditions may be not so good for others. Packet tricks with a nice table layout like Dazzle, Printing, etc. are great tricks if sat at a table but useless to a pro. strolling close up worker.

To me, considerations for 'best' would have to be a)audience reaction (whether the performer loves it or not is just a bonus b)quick reset c)performable under any conditions.

Others might have different considerations, some get hung up on everything being examinable for instance.

Truth is, hundreds of packet tricks get absolutely great reactions because usually there is a lot of magic going on. So choosing the best is perhaps impossible. Besides, anything released in the past decade has hardly had the chance to show any staying power compared to some of the classic packet effects so anything in just the past year or so could hardly be in the running.

Determining the best, is I think an impossibility, since so many seem to be unaware of what has gone before. The best we can hope for is yet another list of personal favorites, which constantly changes as the mood strikes us since we really are spoilt for choice when it comes to good packet tricks.

Certainly, when I tried to determine the top ten packet tricks for fun, and include the results at the end of "Small But Deadly" in 2002, "Twisting The Aces" came out in first place with "Wild Card" coming in second, "Color Monte" and "B'wave" tied in third place. Wild Card may have been first had I listed it as "Wild Card and Variations" considering "Gypsy Curse" was in joint 4th place with "Twisted Sister".

Twisting The Aces of course is performable under every close up performing situation, angle proof, instantly reset and gets a great reaction when performed well. But if you don't 'get it' and some don't, including some well known names, then you're just not going to be able to sell it to lay people as the impossibility it is. Yes there are some stronger versions of the effect out there now (I include my own "Twist in A Glass" amongst them) but often they may not meet the performing conditions of early versions or include extra kickers etc. which have usually been the result of weaker initial handling (implicit rather than explicit approach, extra cards etc.)

Those with a real interest in packet effects ahould check out "Small But Deadly" and the follow up "Still Small, Still Deadly."

Apart from good tricks for you to do, plots are discussed, you are referred to other good effects, occasionally given lines for them, routining tips etc.

Paul.
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Simon Lovell
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I agree with Paul ... there is no best of anything, only best for whomever is performing it. It's not the trick, it's whether it suits the style of the performer, the tricks that are around it, the audience it is being performed to, and a myriad of other reasons.

I rarely do packet tricks at all with my personal favorite being Twisting the Aces. It suits me and my love for simple, direct, easy to understand by the audience, magic!

As an aside for Paul, according to the manufacturers of the cards (certainly up to around 2002) Gypsy Curse, from order receipts, was the third biggest seller with Wild Card coming in second. Gypsy Curse (Peter Kane) is, I believe, different enough from Wild Card (though similar in effect kinda) to rate as a different effect.

Just my ten cents worth,

Simon

Posted: Sep 2, 2010 1:59pm
Oh, and as an aside, just to be obtuse, isn't any card trick, by definition, a packet trick? It's just that some use bigger packets than others!

Just a thought!

Simon
motown
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I would agree that Gypsy Curse and Wild Card (both by Peter Kane) would look like two different effects to a spectator.
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I do demo in a magic shop in Myrtle Beach. After the standard pitch items, Svengali, Nickles to Dimes, and Slush Powder, Color Monti KILLS everyone. Anyone new to magic and is interested in a "Professional" trick, Color Monti is the step up trick.

If you haven't done it for a while, get it out and slay your audience. Three cards, and EVERYTHING can be examined.

Merl
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Simon Lovell
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MerlH,

Yep Peter Kanes Follow the Ace (or something like that) first published in Hugards Magic Monthly was the precursor to the effect we know as Wild Card today. Frank Garcia is credited with giving it the effect that we see today; that of all the cards turning to match an odd one. It was realeased, without his permission, under the title Frank Garcia's Wild Card (he didn't make a penny off it btw) by a large NYC magic dealer (no points for a correct guess); hence much of the confusion over the origins of the effect today!

Just thought you'd like to know!

Simon
sohaib
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Quote:
On 2010-09-02 11:31, Paul wrote:
Color Monte may not be the best packet trick of all time, but as discussed in "Small But Deadly" (my first book on packet tricks) is is without doubt the best seller. And just as Simon Says, it would be nice to have had a hand in it. Or a penny for every one sold Smile

"Best" is really difficult to determine. From whose point of view? And what may be best for some performing conditions may be not so good for others. Packet tricks with a nice table layout like Dazzle, Printing, etc. are great tricks if sat at a table but useless to a pro. strolling close up worker.

To me, considerations for 'best' would have to be a)audience reaction (whether the performer loves it or not is just a bonus b)quick reset c)performable under any conditions.

Others might have different considerations, some get hung up on everything being examinable for instance.

Truth is, hundreds of packet tricks get absolutely great reactions because usually there is a lot of magic going on. So choosing the best is perhaps impossible. Besides, anything released in the past decade has hardly had the chance to show any staying power compared to some of the classic packet effects so anything in just the past year or so could hardly be in the running.

Determining the best, is I think an impossibility, since so many seem to be unaware of what has gone before. The best we can hope for is yet another list of personal favorites, which constantly changes as the mood strikes us since we really are spoilt for choice when it comes to good packet tricks.

Certainly, when I tried to determine the top ten packet tricks for fun, and include the results at the end of "Small But Deadly" in 2002, "Twisting The Aces" came out in first place with "Wild Card" coming in second, "Color Monte" and "B'wave" tied in third place. Wild Card may have been first had I listed it as "Wild Card and Variations" considering "Gypsy Curse" was in joint 4th place with "Twisted Sister".

Twisting The Aces of course is performable under every close up performing situation, angle proof, instantly reset and gets a great reaction when performed well. But if you don't 'get it' and some don't, including some well known names, then you're just not going to be able to sell it to lay people as the impossibility it is. Yes there are some stronger versions of the effect out there now (I include my own "Twist in A Glass" amongst them) but often they may not meet the performing conditions of early versions or include extra kickers etc. which have usually been the result of weaker initial handling (implicit rather than explicit approach, extra cards etc.)

Those with a real interest in packet effects ahould check out "Small But Deadly" and the follow up "Still Small, Still Deadly."

Apart from good tricks for you to do, plots are discussed, you are referred to other good effects, occasionally given lines for them, routining tips etc.

Paul.


Very good post Paul! I have Small and Deadly and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Now I have to pick up the new book!
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Hey Simon, as an aside...Are you obtuse?

Just kidding man...just had to run that old Shawshank Redemption line here. Smile Hope you saw the movie. Smile

Seriously, I enjoy your posts and your magic. Smile

-Mb
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"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb Smile
AaronishMagic
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Twisted SIster is great!
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Quote:
On 2010-09-02 13:59, Simon Lovell wrote:
Oh, and as an aside, just to be obtuse, isn't any card trick, by definition, a packet trick? It's just that some use bigger packets than others!

Just a thought!

Simon


:) Smile Smile This is something I discuss in the introduction to "Still Small, Still Deadly". But as I said in my first packet trick book, a good trick is a good trick no matter how many cards are being used.

People that dismiss packet tricks are often using the odd packet tricks themselves but failing to recognise the fact, because there are differing views of what a packet trick consists of. Does the professional care how many cards he's using if the effect gets a great reaction? No.

Paul.
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I've got hundreds of packet tricks..and to put one above the others and say it's the greatest of all time is a f=difficult thing. But I can name some of my personal favorites (Currently!)

Ten by Richard Sanders, NFW, Gordan Beans Entourage, Jay sankey's Dreamscape, Close up Illusion....
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Simon Lovell
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Lucky you on the quote Mb217 ... it's one of my favorite movies!

Simon
Chris Cain
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I must admit that I haven't seen half of the packet tricks already mentioned. Of the ones I have seen, Tommy Wonder's Tamed Cards stands out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5kxUuO5JZo

Great presentation, well thought out and entertaining to watch.
DelMagic
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This one amazed me when I first saw it. I was fortunate enought to watch Arthur Emerson do it. He was a great demonstrator in my opinion. After I bought one, it then amazed me for a long time afterward every time I did it. It was a lot of fun to show to others and always got a good reaction. Plus you ended clean! This was the well-known effect Sympathetic Cards by Magic Ronnay put out by Emerson and West. I only wish they had used a better card stock. I still have my original set. The different colored backs at the end were so surprising!
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Quote:
On 2010-09-04 00:42, DelMagic wrote:
This one amazed me when I first saw it. I was fortunate enought to watch Arthur Emerson do it. He was a great demonstrator in my opinion. After I bought one, it then amazed me for a long time afterward every time I did it. It was a lot of fun to show to others and always got a good reaction. Plus you ended clean! This was the well-known effect Sympathetic Cards by Magic Ronnay put out by Emerson and West. I only wish they had used a better card stock. I still have my original set. The different colored backs at the end were so surprising!


The latest variation, and improvememt on that, is John Bannon's "Royal Scam", which will also give you the better cards you always wished for.. Smile

Paul.
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motown
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Jim Swain's Capitulating Cards is terrific.

Ghost Flight by Peter Duffie

Goldman's Monkey in the Middle
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