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churken
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I am suprised no one mentioned Docc Hilfords E'Voque. I think his manuscript is magnificent.
Bill Fienning
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Equivoque is one of those techniques that is easy to do REALLY bad. Many magicians have no idea of the underlying psychology and do a very bad job when using this technique making it obvious to the lay spectator. Those magicians would be better off just pushing the correct object over to the spectator and saying, "Use this one." You must have a logical, non-suspicious reason for getting rid of the wrong selections.
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nboisen
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Two recent works with excellent discussion and subtleties on Equivoque are:

1. Hestor Chadwick "The Mental Mysteries of Hector Chadwick"
2. Joshua Quinn "Paralies"
Colin
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Mark Elsdon is a master of this, find his work... it's spread all through it. Wonderfully worded lines which can be adapted to all situations. I gained a lot from it!

Very best wishes,
Col.
bahamagician
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I am with Churken on this. E'Voque by Docc Hilford is simply beautiful. He also performs it and explains it on one of the Monster Mentalism dvd's (although I can't remember which one).

-=Chris
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drezmagic
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There are so many people who cannot perform the equivoque right- If you picked something, why would you "eliminate" it? There are many ways to perform equivoque deceptively though. You have to switch around the choosing method every time and have both outcomes of their choices be equally possible. One of the best ways I have seen in a while, and I forget where I read this, but a spectator puts their finger on 2 objects, and then lifts up one of their fingers. I think most mentalists on this forum can figure out where it would go from here... I use equivoque often but it is important that I make sure the selection process if fair- otherwise it can be very obvious. and yes, I agree with the earlier posters that E'voque by Docc is great!

-
Lawrence O
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Equivoque as a magical technique appeared for the first time in Ponsin's "La magie blance dévoilée."

The term is French and -even if Lee Earl has to reimburse his bets based on a wrong Webster claim-: it is pronounced in French "ekivok" (no pronounced W). The word stems from the prefix equi (like equivalent but, in French, the "u" after the "q" is never pronounced as a W).
Equi as a prefix means "equal" (again no pronounced "U" as "W" in French) in the sense of ambiguous. The suffix -voque stems from Vox with the meaning of the verb "to voice" as in "vocal". Once more, in French, the "u" after the "q" is never pronounced.

Hence Equivoque means "to voice something ambiguous or with equal result."
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Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2009-08-10 11:17, drezmagic wrote:
There are so many people who cannot perform the equivoque right- If you picked something, why would you "eliminate" it?

-

Joel,

I saw horrible uses of Equivoque made by some people in the trade...

I think that's why "Equivoque" is also known as "Magician's Choice"... Smile

(And for the record, I also state that in my little treatise... Just ask Colin McLeod!) Smile

Hmmm... Now, that was just a thought!
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PsiDroid
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Quote:
On 2009-09-21 14:02, Lord Of The Horses wrote:


I think that's why "Equivoque" is also known as "Magician's Choice"... Smile



that put a whole new meaning on the term :
Colin
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Paolo is well and truly on to something very worthwhile!

In fact, Paolo, I have something I'd like you to take a look at! ... feels like I'm talking to a doctor here.

Check your mail,
Col.
Ed_Millis
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Having been quite properly chastised in another thread for not understanding the thoughts behind this, where can someone horribly guilty of "Magician's Choice" begin to gain a proper understanding of this? Emphasis on "begin" and "proper" - I'm sure there are a lot of foundational thoughts that I didn't get introduced to in Magic For Dummies!

Ed
Jean-Luc.R.
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Alain Bellon "ORBIS ARDENTIS " would be also an interesting source for equivoque.

He says in this one that (I quote) :

" Limiting the use of eqivoque to just forcing one object from three , is nothing but a gross trivialization..." (page 3 Orbis Ardentis)

Eqivoque can be used (as stated by Bellon ) for forcing , reducing selection sets, interpreting an outcome or a situation to our own convenience , etc...
Lord Of The Horses
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Absolutely.

Alain is one of the masters in this.

As for the sentence you quote, which itself could be interpreted (isn't Equivoque great?) I tend to agree (albeit not fully).


But, yes, reducing selection sets (which is something you would do anyway IF you started with one or more groups of 30 objects as David Berglas sometimes did) is one straightforward needed skill to perform Equivoque confidently. Interpreting an outcome or stituation to our own convenience again is used in most straightforward Equivoque forcing anyway, especially when you are down to the last objects, if you want to add some finesse to your work...

But I can appreciate here Alain is going for a broader meaning of the term Equivoque (the most common, true dictionary meaning) and thus I can see where this could lead us to.

Alain... If you are here... Please KNOCK TWICE so that we can know of your presence among us!


P.S: Colin, what a powerful piece of mumbo-jumbo you put together! Smile
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Turk
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I'm surprised that Docc Hilford's excellent "E'Voque" hss not yet ben mentioned on this thread.

Here is another Café link discussing the ptrinciple: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=15&47

and, here is an excellent review of Docc's E'Voque by Doug Dyment:

Quote:
On 2006-03-14 11:03, ddyment wrote:
David de Leon asked:
Quote:
How does this compare to (and/or complement) other works that are sometimes mentioned?

Phi Goldstein’s “Verbal Control”
Jack Dean’s “The Equivoque Choice”
The chapter in the Berglas book
Christian Chelman's approach in “Capricornian Tales”
Stuff by Alain Nu in “Mind Over Matter”
David Eldridge’s “Maximum Mind Control”

It's an evolution of the approach described in the Berglas book, from which it differs in two significant ways. First, Docc has developed a much more "automatic" process, with a script that (once committed to memory) allows one to dispense with most of the "thinking on your feet" aspect, and devote attention to presentation. Second, Docc has given the effect a different focus, which many performers will find to be a more entertaining one.

This latter aspect can be dispensed with, and only the equivoque technique used (which will result in an effect identical to Berglas', but easier to perform). I think that not dispensing with it is the better choice, but it depends on your performing model.


Hope this helps.

Mike
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Lord Of The Horses
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Because we were waiting for you mentioning it, Mike!

We knew it was coming...
I suggest you to read... DIRECTIONAL MIND PATHS - Vol.1: Beyond The Veil Of Maya and also to read DANGEROUS - XXI Century Dual Reality Techniques
Colin
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Glad you liked my mumbo jumbo!

Docc Hilford's work is wonderful... nuff said!

Col.
JohnWells
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Evoke seems to owe a sizeable debt to Phantini.
Dompa
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Which publication would you recommend most for someone who is already familiar with the technique itself and wants to study it further?

Samuel Catoe's Illusions of influnce

or

David Eldridge's Maximum Mind Control

I already own, Greg Arces instructions from Deep Thought, as well as a german publication about equivoque.

Thanks,
Dominik
Dompa
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No recommendations?
Oscar999
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E'voque is real magic!

Docc's manuscript details a subtlety for when you get down to two items, that's just brilliant ... I was delighted he did NOT tip that on the Monster Mentalism DVDs (the subtlety, that is)

Docc Rocks!

Oscar
Dave Le Fevre
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Quote:
On 2009-10-01 13:51, Oscar999 wrote:
Docc's manuscript details a subtlety for when you get down to two items, that's just brilliant

Docc suggests that if the specified item is selected part-way through the performance, then you end then and there.

But while that makes sense, I always continue until I get to just two items ..... because I think that that subtlety to which you refer packs such real power.

Dave
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Mick Ayres
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For those that are reading this thread for the resource-information about equivoque...if you promise not to tell, there is an excellent chapter on the subject carefully hidden within the pages of Lewis Jones' "Encyclopedia of Impromptu Card Forces". Also, Bryn Reynold's 'Seven' and my own 'Cast Away' are two more effects that take advantage of the principle.
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JanForster
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Quote:
On 2009-11-18 15:32, Mick Ayres wrote:
...if you promise not to tell, there is an excellent chapter on the subject carefully hidden within the pages of Lewis Jones' "Encyclopedia of Impromptu Card Forces"...

Pssst, but thanks. Jan
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mindhunter
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Quote:
On 2009-11-18 15:32, Mick Ayres wrote:
For those that are reading this thread for the resource-information about equivoque...if you promise not to tell, there is an excellent chapter on the subject carefully hidden within the pages of Lewis Jones' "Encyclopedia of Impromptu Card Forces". Also, Bryn Reynold's 'Seven' and my own 'Cast Away' are two more effects that take advantage of the principle.


Thanks for the mention of SEVEN, Mick!

Some great equivoque-related sources are mentioned within here...

Bryn
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Jonathan
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How restrictive is the definition of "equivoque"? I use what I believe is the basic concept in a lot of ways, some of which don't resemble "magician's choice" at all. But, if the only qualification is using changeable responses to lead to the same eventual conclusion (although, maybe not all of the conclusion is revealed?), then I guess it would fall under the umbrella of "equivoque".

Or is the definition more specific?

BTW, I absolutely love it and I believe it is one of the top 3 most powerful tools in our arsenal...one which blows the minds of magicians in the audience! M*****le o*ts being another (which I believe is a cousin of equivoque and sometimes the line between them is a bit blurred).
edh
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Quote:
On 2009-11-18 13:05, Dave Le Fevre wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-01 13:51, Oscar999 wrote:
Docc's manuscript details a subtlety for when you get down to two items, that's just brilliant

Docc suggests that if the specified item is selected part-way through the performance, then you end then and there.

But while that makes sense, I always continue until I get to just two items ..... because I think that that subtlety to which you refer packs such real power.

Dave


Dave, good idea to continue on. Thanks for the tip.
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Todd Robbins
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Pick up two of these books,and now hand me one...

Quote:
On 2003-07-23 01:37, dAvId tOnG wrote:
A couple of good sources/books for Equivoque:

1) Mind Control
2) A Section in The Mind and Magic of David
Berglas (his method allows you to force
an object out of 20!!!
3) Verbal Control by Phil Goldstein
4) Some interesting ideas by Lee Earle in
his new book M.I.N.D.
Jonathan
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If you could only recommend one book on the subject to read (assuming the mentalist already knew what equivoque was), which one would you suggest? Smile
Dompa
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Quote:
If you could only recommend one book on the subject to read (assuming the mentalist already knew what equivoque was), which one would you suggest?


I already asked the same question and got NO answer so far. I think that means that all the mentioned books are worth to read and all of them have some usefull information and twists in it...
gabelson
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Quote:
On 2009-09-23 23:12, Turk wrote:
I'm surprised that Docc Hilford's excellent "E'Voque" hss not yet ben mentioned on this thread.

Here is another Café link discussing the ptrinciple: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=15&47

and, here is an excellent review of Docc's E'Voque by Doug Dyment:

Quote:
On 2006-03-14 11:03, ddyment wrote:
David de Leon asked:
Quote:
How does this compare to (and/or complement) other works that are sometimes mentioned?

Phi Goldstein’s “Verbal Control”
Jack Dean’s “The Equivoque Choice”
The chapter in the Berglas book
Christian Chelman's approach in “Capricornian Tales”
Stuff by Alain Nu in “Mind Over Matter”
David Eldridge’s “Maximum Mind Control”

It's an evolution of the approach described in the Berglas book, from which it differs in two significant ways. First, Docc has developed a much more "automatic" process, with a script that (once committed to memory) allows one to dispense with most of the "thinking on your feet" aspect, and devote attention to presentation. Second, Docc has given the effect a different focus, which many performers will find to be a more entertaining one.

This latter aspect can be dispensed with, and only the equivoque technique used (which will result in an effect identical to Berglas', but easier to perform). I think that not dispensing with it is the better choice, but it depends on your performing model.


Hope this helps.

Mike


E'Voque is wonderful. IMHO, Docc's most significant work.
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