Hey guys. I walked away from the mem deck for about a year. I was still shakey with it when I walked away, but knew it enough to do a few tricks with it. I'm now re-learning the aronson stack. I'm good up through 36 but the last 16 are absolutely killing me. I can't remember them at all. It's going to take a while to get solid with it. This is just a friendly reminder to keep practicing it all the time!

I have discussed this exact topic with many magi, I came to the consensus that indeed it is difficult to re-learn a stack but not nearly as hard as trying to learn it for the first time. I know I have read on this forum that some will simply recite the stack as they are brushing their teeth, I have a friend who recites the stack forward and backward before going to bed (in place of the lords prayer). I'm condoning that though.

What I am saying is it takes less than a minute to recite the entire stack forward and backward and can easily be practised in the absence of any prop. So keeping on top of it is a matter of discipline and initiative, with that good luck on re-learning the rest of the stack!

Thanks. I'm good up through 45 now. 46-49 are the tough ones for me. I also easily remember the last three. It's only a matter of time before I'm going to have it all locked in place.

The most effective way I have been reciting the stack lately is in the GYM. What I do is 13 repetitions , and 4 sets of most exercises , and as I count the reps I recite a card. Since you got to count your reps during exercise, and it can get boring, I actually find my workouts a bit more fun now.

Why didn't I think of that! That's a great tip dimazales! It'll definitely help the time go faster. Training the brain and the muscles at the same time!

I try to practice my stack while doing 12 ounce curls.

Hey, Twistedace (and others),

I practice during radio or TV commercials. IMHO, the sound distraction helps simulate real performance potentially distracting conditions.

In no particular order, I try to do the following:

1. 1-52 then 52-1

2. Each suit Ace-King and then King-Ace (CHaSeD order and then reversed CHaSeD order and then random order of suits)

3. In CHaSeD order: All the Aces, then all the 2s then all the 3s then....up to all the Kings. Then backwards of Kings down to Aces. CHaSed, reverse CHaSeD, etc.)

4. Home-made flash card deck with each of the card's number written big and bold on the back of said card. From here, you can practice looking at the numbers and guess the card. However, to look at the face-up deck, the deck must be randomly shuffled. I use the random shuffle numbers-to-card identity and then, turning the deck over I look at the card faces and guess the card numbers.

5. I have taken a suggestion that I think Dennis Loomis gave whereby you not only guess the card (or its number), you also guess the card before and after that card. (This helps you if you forget a particular card but know the value of the card either before and/or after it and this helps you "get back on track".)

Frankly, I try to "mix it up" and do many repetitions of various of the exercises. While I originally heavily used the flash card exercises, I have found myself now mainly doing the purely mental exercises. I practice during commercials, while standing in a grocery or bank checkout line, while driving for long stretches of road on the highway, while waiting for an event to start, etc. I also practice when I am laying in bed and having difficulty going to sleep.

(As you can tell from the above, I never got into the "mnemonics approach" advocated by Harry Lorayne and others. Maybe, even at this late date, I should try a mnemonics approach. And, while I learned the Aronson Stack, I also just purchased Juan Tamariz' "Memonica" and I am fascinated with his memorized deck exercises and I think they are worthwhile and will also be tried by me.)

Hope some of this helps.

Mike

P.S. Two other things I did with the flash cards were:

6. If I missed a card during a flash card exercise, I would reinsert the missed card back into the unused portion of the flash card deck. This practice would give me 2, 3 (etc.) opportunities during every deck run to reinforce the card and to "get it right".

7. From the flash deck,I'd remove the cards that I repeatedly had trouble remembering and thereby make up a "mini flash deck" of just my "misses". I'd work on just those "misses" until I got them down somewhat better and then I'd integrate some random cards from the rest of the flash deck and practice the exercises and then I'd finally go back to using the entire deck in the flash card exercises.

I shuffle my flash deck and run through the cards naming the face with the position number. Then run through the cards face up namein the position number while looking at the face.

I do this once a day. It takes maybe 1minute to do and it keeps the deck fresh in my mind.

Too many people give up on memorized decks because they're using a memorization technique that doesn't fit their learning style. They try to do it the way the author did it, and then wonder why they are having so much trouble.

Different people have different learning models: there's no "one size fits all". Some have no trouble with (brute force) rote learning. Others prefer a classical mnemonic approach. Some like the rule-based stacks. And others like algorithmic approaches.

There's no shortage of people who will tell you what is "best". But there is no universal "best" ... only what is best for the learner! Do some research before committing yourself to the acquisition of a memorized deck method!

I had trouble going from the neumonics to straight number=value recall, until I started to play solitaire using the stack numbers instead of the face values of the cards. It combined playing a game I play occasionally anyway, with some very effective practice of the mem deck. Within short order I had the deck cold. I've been away from the mem deck for a while but if I sit and review the order in my mind, then start playing the game I tend to get up to snuff fairly quickly.

Hahaha, anytime you get a chance you make a plug with your website

Hmmm. Years ago, when I was trying to make up my mind on which type of deck to memorize, I found Doug's article to be very valuable.

Was there something in the article written by Doug that you found to be either in error or valueless? If so, for the benefit and education of the Café membership, it would be appreciated if you would please state what that might be.

In any event, it seems to me that Doug's comment imparted far more value and information to Café members than did your drive-by snide and disrespectful comment directed at a fellow Café member.

Of course, all the foregoing is just IMHO; your mileage may vary.

Haha calm down. I was merely stating that a lot of his posts carry a link to his website.

In NO WAY was I knocking his website, in fact I have read and re-read it. It is a classic on the treaty of stack decks. I have read copious amounts of stack material and his is up there with the best.

I apologize to Doug if I offended him in away.

I am working on a project right now on MD history and application and would love to reference his website!

Once again I am sorry if anyone was offended and please do check out that link because it is well worth the read
Cheers,
Greydon

I am not easily offended. My postings often include a link to one resource or another within my Web site, because it's much easier to do that than reproduce all the information here (I almost never, if ever, post a link just to the Web site itself).

One of the messages I often find myself repeating (because new members here continually provoke it) is that many of the subjects under discussion have no simple/trivial answers. There is no universally "best" anything, for example, yet that may well be the most commonly asked question on the Café. But it's not possible to make that case without a fairly detailed, reasoned presentation. Which is what instigated the writing of some of my essays in the first place, and why you will often find me referring to them in my responses.

Hope this helps!

Hi Greydon,

I too apologize for coming off so stridently. I read (misread?) far too much into your humorous efforts than I apparently should have done. Sorry. Again, my apologies.

Best,

Mike

There's a common misconception that mnemonics will continue to be used once you start performing with a memorized deck. This should not be the case. I take well to mnemonics and have used mnemonic codes and devices to memorize many things. But, the mnemonics should fade away leaving you with a true memory of the order of the cards and the stack numbers of the cards. Doug is right that you need to find out what works best for you. However, I also think that many folks dismiss mnemonics before they really give such systems a fair trial.

A memorized deck is a powerful tool that you will use the rest of your life if you Don't Walk Away. Have the discipline to stick with whatever learning method you try first long enough to really determine if it works for you. The Tamariz drills are very different and very interesting. Unfortunately, by the time I had heard about them I had developed considerable facility with the Aronson Stack and didn't need them.

Dennis Loomis

Dennis Loomis

I had trouble with the end of the stack as well (I learned by rote, beginning to end). The way I remember the last 10-12 cards in the stack is to remember their place in the poker deal that they are a part of: there's a 2 at 41 AND 51, Qs at 48 and 50, KS and QS are five cards apart, and so on. That helped me keep them in my head.

Here's a little exercise to add while you're driving. (Yes, driving! - don't worry, it's safer than using a cellphone).

Look for numbers on signs, and associate them as a stack number, with the corresponding card. You see a 25 mph speed limit sign, and think 7H. See a 55 mph sign, and - no worries - think 5 and then 9S, or think 10 and AC. In other words, do some simple alteration of numbers over 52.

The best source, if you are in slow traffic, would be license plates. Also, if you're passing houses or businesses, and it's easy to see - the number of the street address. How about gas stations and prices? (They're always going up, so always changing Break up the numbers into singles and pairs, and think of the associated card.

On the highway, look for exit numbers. If the exit numbers are over 52 (57A, for example) think 5 and 7, 9S, 3H, think 12, 5H, etc.

Now, don't get distracted from traffic! But that means, speeding up the association. You will find you pretty quickly run through all 52 cards, and fairly randomly at that.

OK, now that you've got your mobile exercise, for those of you who, like me, have to sit through boring meetings (business meetings always have boring parts, if not entirely boring).

Take notes at the meeting, impress your colleagues! You seem so attentive. But, being the fine magish you are, you are misdirecting them into thinking this.

What you are really doing is jotting down the Aronson stack several different ways. Start simply by listing the cards as quickly as you can, in 4 rows of 13: JS KC 5C 2H etc

Next, list the stack numbers of a new deck order pack, again in 4 rows of 13: thus - 6 41 17 37 20 etc Do the same for a suit at a time, ace through king, in CHSD order: 10 51 40 etc

Now how about each value in CHSD order, first all the aces, then twos, etc: 10 22 5 18 51 4 41 13 etc

Do these quickly, look at what you are writing as little as possible, write quickly, while maintaining eye contact with your colleagues, much as you would when performing a card effect. If you are asked what those numbers are, make something up! You're a magician, for crying out loud. Tell them this is your personal shorthand for the entire English language, and you've been transcribing the (terminally boring) conversation verbatim. If asked to repeat anything, do what you would do if asked to repeat a magic trick - don't!

Hope this helps. It has gotten me through more meetings than I care to remember, and helped me keep my Aronson stack in my head.

I agree with Mr.Loomis about using mnemonic system, they help tremendously, I know three stacks. mnemonics is a hobby for me and its fun, its what I enjoy.