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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » Thayer nesting boxes (coin in ball of wool) plans (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

malcolm
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I'm interested in building a set of nesting boxes for the coin-in-ball-of-wool-in-boxes illusion. Does anyone know where I can find plans for this? I'd be interested in making a set similar to the old Thayer Magic ones (http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/thayer-magic-coin-in-ball-of-wool).
I'm an amateur cabinet-maker so I'll be making them myself, but I need rough plans to be able to make them!
Any help would be wonderful.
Bill Hegbli
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Owen Magic own the rights to Thayer Magic products, you will have to contact them for your request. Although, smaller magic effects on the market, do not have workshop plans, they are passed down or taken from previously built tricks.

http://www.owenmagic.com

They still make and sell this trick, as of 2005 it sells for $450.00, will have increased in price by now. Contact them for the currentl price.
Graduate of Chavez School of Prestidigitation and Showmanship
Spellbinder
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The coin or ring in ball of wool can be accomplished without resorting to trick boxes. See my "Ring into Nest of Boxes - Revisited" in The Wizards' Journal # 11 on my site for details. That means you can concentrate on making a beautiful set of wooden nesting boxes with no need for plans as long as one box fits inside the other... or you can get a set of cardboard nesting boxes to act as templates if you need dimensions, etc. In my version, the magic is "outside the box." No need to beg for permission, either!
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

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malcolm
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Thanks for the suggestion, Spellbinder. I appreciate that. However, I'm actually looking for plans for nested boxes that allow both the boxes to have padlocks and latches on the front, so they'll need to be gimmicked!
Spellbinder
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As I said, the boxes don't need to be gimmicked to do the effect. However if you need the plans in order to make boxes that have padlocks and latches, you might try this: http://www.amazon.com/Tauntons-Complete-......im_b_2#_
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
malcolm
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Thanks, Spellbinder. In fact, I do want gimmicked boxes as I'm intending to have the boxes locked. And thanks for the book suggestion - I read that one a year or two ago and have actually made a couple of boxes based on their plans. The difficulty I'm having is working out how to gimmick them, though, for the routine I'm working on.

The closest thing I've seen so far to what I'm after is actually featured on Derren Brown's latest televised stage show, Enigma - here's a link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk1C_IIfufQ&feature=related

What I'm hoping to do in the end is not use the brandy snifter or ball of wool, but a pair of nested cloth bags instead. The boxes, though, are what I'm after. Any idea where to get plans or even ideas about how best to gimmick the boxes? I have ideas myself but would prefer not to have to reinvent the wheel if others before me have worked out the kinks.
Michael Baker
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Here's a set I made for myself. These are Mahogany with Ebony inlay. The locks are half mortice.

The method is taught in Bobo's Modern Coin Magic. You will have to draw your own building plans. If you know how to read plans, you'll understand how to draw your own.

Image
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Spellbinder
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Have you checked J.B. Bobo's "Modern Coin Magic" book? It contains details of a coin in ball of wool using nested boxes.

Oops! Too late! Brother Baker beat me to it! With photographs, no less!
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
malcolm
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Thanks guys. I appreciate the help. Nice photos, Michael! You've done a good job of those. I've had a look at Bobo and that's close to what I'm after. My only qualm is that I'd like to be able to have the spectator open everything without me going near the box (after handing it to them), so I might just need to draw some plans myself. I've got ideas but it'll take a bit of experimenting. I might also try designing something that allows me to get larger items (eg wristwatch) inside. I'll let you know how it goes!
Michael Baker
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Having built many different nested boxes, I'll be interested to see what you come up with.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
tabman
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Beautiful Michael. Mahogany may be my first choice wood. Your chests look like fine antiques.

Maybe 20 years ago I put a set together for Jamy Ian Swiss when he was still in NYC. Instead of the boxes, a nice black velvet bag was used. The prop was complete with a pair of knitting needles. I thought the effect was just as strong or stronger using a the bag. The little magician was sewn into the bag and accessed from the bottom and done when you turned the bag over to dump the ball of wool onto the table or into a hand.

Take care....
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...

http://Sefalaljia.com
Bill Hegbli
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So the thread goes round and round and no one can give this lad the measurements of the boxes. To bad, I suggested this question be moved here as I hoped he could get some answers to his questions.

Now it looks like he does not know what he wants. Coin if Ball of Wools is very different from the Watch in Nest of Boxes.

Now he is putting conditions on the methodology, wanting the spectator to be the center of the trick, by them opening each box and removing the next box.

So now we have a puzzle as to what the young boy actually wants to do and actually needs for his nest of boxes. Seems he is torn as to what he really wants in such an effect.

I have never owned a nest of boxes, so I cannot give him any sizes or secrets to how they all work. I do know there are at least 3 different methods to the boxes, depending on what items you which to deal with for the vanish.

Gee, now I have confused myself!

Here is a cheap nest of boxes the spectator can open: http://www.magicgoods.com/products/mystery-nested-boxes.php not the best in the world, but the price is good.
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malcolm
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Hey Hegblini,

Actually it's all coming together...somewhat. The above posts have given me ideas which I've now altered on paper and I think I know where I'm going with this. Yes, I'm putting conditions on the trick but I've also worked out a solution!

I'm still working out details but I'm aiming for two different sets of boxes: the first, two locked boxes which can be loaded from outside (ie the coin penetrates both boxes before being handed to the spectator - no need to do the necessary work half way through), and a second set for a completely different routine which would allow me to load larger objects like a watch.

The latter method I haven't decided on yet - I've drawn up one plan but it requires starting with the box lying on its front (under a cloth or behind cover) and being tipped upright before being handed over to the spectator. Not ideal, but workable.
hugmagic
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I would also look at Tommy Wonder's books. I think the second gives his method of the nest of boxes. it might give you some more ideas.

As for the methodolgy, some are bottom loads, others have slides, and others have a secret panel that opens. I hope that helps a little. I don't want to say much more in an open forum.

You can write me direct if you need more info.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Michael Baker
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One of the things I have learned about Nested Boxes, is that there is ALWAYS a compromise. With some, you have to load before the box is brought into view, with others, the spectators cannot handle the box (or all the boxes), with others, you have some bad angles, with others, you have to have an assistant, etc. There are many methods, and ALL contain a flaw that must be concealed.

Tommy Wonder devised methods that were so good at concealing the inherent flaws, that he created a bigger problem in which the audience was left with no recourse except to assume that the object found inside the nest, was not the same one borrowed, in spite of the fact that it was!
~michael baker
The Magic Company
malcolm
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I'm finally getting around to posting images of the finished boxes. Can be loaded from the bottom as per Bobo, or (if you're not using a third container like ball of wool or Altoids tin) from the back.

Still not quite happy, but it's my first set so I'm bound to want to change things!
malcolm
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Ok, trying the photo thing again...

Click here to view attached image.
malcolm
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And second photo...

Click here to view attached image.
majik_1
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Very nice work. what type of wood did you use?
malcolm
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Baltic birch ply (1/2" and 1/4") for the bodies, walnut for the trim and oak for the tops. All off-cuts I had lying around so there's no real rhyme or reason for the choice!
Michael Baker
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It's fun looking at what you have on hand and finding something to make from it. Very resourceful!
~michael baker
The Magic Company
minty
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These boxes look awesome Malcolm.

I love Derren's presentation of the effect in Enigma. Wonderfully done.
Bill Hegbli
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Malcolm, are these boxes made as you were hoping, to have the spectator open and remove the boxes? Did you wind up using bags inside or went with another idea?
Graduate of Chavez School of Prestidigitation and Showmanship
malcolm
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I've only done the routine a couple of times - still not entirely happy either with the presentation or the method, but I'm mulling it over. I altered the boxes slightly to allow the introduction from two different places; each has its benefits but as I said, I'm not entirely happy with either yet. One method allows the spectator to open both boxes, the other requires me to remove the first box. More work to do!
Bill Hegbli
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Malcolm, thanks for your update. Please keep us posted. It is very interesting.

I would like to point out, that the Derren Brown video you referenced is not actually a Coin in Nest of Boxes trick. He is presenting a mentalist effect, not a magic trick where borrowed coin is vanished and found inside the smallest object.

I would like to say, I believe his boxes are totally ordinary, and can be examined for hours and they will find nothing unusual about them. This trick is just another take on Johnathon Neal Brown's and Don Wayne's "Room Service" effect presented by David Copperfield on an early television special.

We as budding magicians, don't have the luxury of huge budgets, enormous stages, and additional back stage assistants to present our magic tricks in this kind of setting. There is a reason for his long story as told to the audience.
Graduate of Chavez School of Prestidigitation and Showmanship
boboshempy
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Derren Brown's boxes are not ordinary. I have seen the show live and watched him do the load.

Does anyone happen to know who made his prop?
sly2272
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Anyone?
Bill Hegbli
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Most of the English craftsman are secluded people and artisans. Very difficult to find, if you live in England ask around the "Magic Circle", if you are a member.
Graduate of Chavez School of Prestidigitation and Showmanship
JamesinLA
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I made a set with my own style gimmick years ago. It can load a coin or a ring. I'll take a picture and post it. Michael Baker is correct of course, apart from Tommy Wonder's last version, there is that trade off.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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