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Richard Evans Inner circle 1379 Posts |
You're right, Bri - it was sold as part of the Fisher collection in March last year.
Hammer price was £160 (about $260). Richard
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Sounds like a bargain, considering the provenance.
Sean |
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
So let me get this right folk are willing to pay 1500+ for a set of cups that a)the design was stolen ,b)the name applied to them was not authorized & c)they do not know if they are solid silver or plated.hmmm collectors are a funny bunch.
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts |
Thanks Richard!
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Tboehnlein:
You have it exactly right : that's probably why the cups are being offered at such a low starting price! No, seriously, the very things you mention only add to the mystique and historical narrative of these cups and when you throw in their rarity, a high auction price would not be at all surprising. In any case, cup collecting is not quite the rational, objective thing you suppose it to be. Going after a particular set of cups to add to one's collection is usually driven by emotion. Fortasse |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-14 08:09, tboehnlein wrote: Actually, even though I have never scratched either set of my Haden cups, I am positive that they are plated, for a number of very simple reasons. The first of them is that they originally sold for $22.00 a set in 1959. The craftsmanship of these cups is very difficult to beat. Think of this -- the first copies of the Karl Fulves Slydini books had to be recalled because Supreme felt that the similarity of the titles would be confusing, even though there was no sound legal reason to do so. These books are now very highly prized. On the other hand, many magicians seem to suffer from the delusion that any spectator really wants a card.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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conjurormatt Regular user Ft. Worth, TX 181 Posts |
So, who's gonna start the bidding?
EDIT: I just saw that the bidding had started, hadn't check it in a day.
Matthew Martin
"Merely to be acquainted with the basic secret of a card trick, in no way qualifies you to perform it. Few people realize that even a simple trick in the hands of a capable performer can become a minor miracle." ~Dai Vernon |
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Bill :
How does the craftsmanship and overall quality of these cups compare with that of the Danny Dew/Paul Fox cups? Posted: Mar 15, 2011 10:58pm Bill : what do you think became of the 20 (out of a total production run of 26) sets that are unaccounted for? That seems a pretty high attrition rate, doesn't it? Do you think the estimate of 26 may have been too high to begin with; that perhaps fewer sets were actually made? Sean |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I don't really know. The cups are fairly delicate, though, which might account for their slow disappearance.
BTW, since they are smaller than a PF cup, they may not have been as popular.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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john oleson Loyal user 296 Posts |
Pete B,
Is this the only case you have ever come out on the short end of the deal or could there be a novel lurcking? |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I should add that the craftsmanship of these cups is really incredibly good. I've held four different sets in my hands. All four of them are really well made.
tboehnlein made some disparaging remarks about the Connie Haden cups which are only partially well-grounded. Let me clarify a few things about this cup design, because this needs to be said for the benefit of everyone who is interested in them. Paul Fox made only a few sets of his original design. The time I have been given as the date of manufacture of these cups was 1932. Paul did not spin the cups himself. They were spun by someone who specialized in metal spinning. The same can be said of Connie Haden and also of Danny Dew. None of them did their own metal spinning. All three of them were involved in the finishing of the cups, though. Paul sold or gave these cups to various performers, among them, Dai Vernon. He produced only a few sets, probably about a half dozen in all. There was no patent, copyright or trademark on this design, as far as I have been able to determine. Roughly 27 years passed, when Connie Haden was contacted to make the Slydini cups. Connie built things to order. He probably had no direct knowledge of the Paul Fox cups. The ones he made were smaller, but the craftsmanship was excellent. He was probably working from a photograph. Paul Fox realized he needed to do something to protect his design, so he licensed it to Danny Dew. Danny produced the first authorized Paul Fox cups sometime in 1960 or 1961. The design took off, and all the pro's wanted them. The first run was a little different than what Paul Fox wanted, so the design was changed. The design took off, and all the pro's wanted them. Most of these were spun by Perigee or Rings and Things (not RnT II). Then Jeff Busby acquired the rights to the cups. The question of knocking the cups off does come to mind. However, there are various magic producers whose craftsmanship is so good that most people do not mind their knockoffs, because they are superior to the originals. Two examples would be Eddy Taytelbaum of the Netherlands and Richard Gerlitz. Their products are wonderfully produced. In fact, most people who build apparatus feel honored when Taytelbaum or Gerlitz makes a version of one of their tricks. This is not to condone Haden's production of these cups. But they are different enough from Paul Fox cups that nobody who had ever held a set of PF cups in his hands would mistake Haden cups for Paul Fox cups. BTW, there is NO confusion as to whether these cups are solid silver or silver plated. They are silver plated.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Bill:
Fascinating insights! Tell me, do you know whether ANY of the Connie Haden cups were made of solid silver? |
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epoptika Elite user Florida 477 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-18 03:57, Bill Palmer wrote: I thought I'd read, on this forum, that Jeff Busby did NOT have the rights to the PF cups and all of his ceaseless hounding of people selling their cups on the auction sites had no legal standing? |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
That's actually correct. Technically, Danny Dew PROBABLY did not have the right to sell the rights to produce the cups. The history of the payments for these "rights" is fraught with intrigue and disappointment, especially for Melba Dew. People who know her well say that the worst thing you can do in front of Melba is to say the words "Jeff Busby."
I should have qualified the statement I made about Jeff a bit. @ fortasse. I don't think there were any CH cups in solid silver. Spinning in silver requires a clean room. I don't know that Sam Derleinger had one.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Thanks.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-18 19:41, epoptika wrote: I should also add that his hounding of people who were selling their cups on eBay and other auction sites would not have had any legal standing whatsoever, even if he had owned the rights to the cups. It is quite likely that had someone pressed the issue and taken eBay's management to court over these actions, there would have been a rather large settlement. Ebay was complicit in these issues.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
......just sold for $2,314.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
That's about right.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Bill Wells Elite user Lexington, VA 457 Posts |
I want mine back. (Biro here on Bill's computer)
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts |
Anybody knew who won them? I wonder if I could intercept the postman!
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