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canaday Special user Florida 740 Posts |
Demand Mickey's Dice Matrix. It is brilliant.
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
I'd love to see that one......
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canaday Special user Florida 740 Posts |
He does it killing everyone, then does it slow showing the moves to do it. Then he does it back up to speed while everyone is watching for the moves he just showed. Not one person has been able to follow it back up to speed.I am hoping he releases the routine for sale on dvd. He will sell a pile of them.
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cperkins Special user 700 Posts |
FFW -
Just out of curiosity, if you ever tried to just mess around with some of the simpler stuff that Mickey does - just casually and just for giggles, you'd understand and appreciate the reasoning and importance behind some of those jestures; the pointing and the body language etc., of his that you don't like. Believe me, it is all done deliberately and for a reason which I can't explain here - but it all helps create those fabulous illusions of his. The more I watch what he does, the more I appeciate his work - he's amazing.
To see a difficult thing lightly handled gives the impression of the impossible.
(Goethe) |
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Mona Morrison New user chicago area 26 Posts |
OMG I have finally found a link to Mickey Silver. After watching some of the videos I know this has to be the same person I meet several years ago at MAGIC ON THE BEACH. The gentleman who was the human slot machine, with coins that kept coming and coming. (Wish the payoff in Vegas was that good to me).
Now,if I may, I would like to ask Mickey a few questions. From watching you perform back at MOB and now on these demo tapes on U tube, it is easy to say that you are not a tradional magician, but a performer. Where does that come from, what influenced you? Was there a mentor, books or tapes? Hope you don't mind the basic questions but I would like to know more about what is behind the perfomer, the entertainer.. and yes I would love to "know how its all done" besides miracles and smoke and mirrors, but is for another time. Thank you Mona |
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MarkSpitzer New user WV 51 Posts |
Just a reminder to those who are "hard-of-thinking", this thread is called "Mickey Silver's Psychological Secrets/ Entertaining with Coin Magic".
Suggestions, observation's and critiques are best posted in threads with a specific request for such, as in the excellent thread http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=3 "Coin Critique2!" [I single that thread out as a clearly defined example of an invitation to comment on handling/performance skills, and for no other reason.] If you want to START a thread on why YOU (I leave it as an exercise for the readers to figure out who that might refer to) feel that "So-and-So is a (fill in the blank with whatever descriptors you feel appropriate).." then go ahead. That would be the appropriate space for your OPINION. As an opinion, you may not even feel compelled to give reasons, but you could. It would be YOUR thread. Posting such type of comments in-line in THIS thread, however, DOES NOT FORWARD THE (thread) AUTHOR'S INTENTION. Such posts are a distraction. Please stop. That being said... My response to some of the comments here, based entirely on my opinion: I find Mickey's hand gestures and wrist turning to appear natural. HOWEVER, that is based on my seeing him live before I saw him on video. I contrast this to MY reaction to first viewing Al Schneider on DVD and seeing his hand position as being somewhat awkward and unnatural, in his Cups and Balls, despite his very reasonable explanation of why he does what he does. Years later I saw one of his students performing in the close-up theater at The Magic Castle (Shout-out to Vinny: Thank You again for hosting us!), and her version was wonderfully engaging and moving...and I immediately knew who her mentor had been. BUT: my three non-magician friends were also amazed without any comment on how she handled the cups. To me, it looked great, but the technique (hand position on cups) just looked...unnatural. My points being: how we as magicians see each others work MIGHT depend in part on how we see the work first (live vs recorded) as to the naturalness of movement, and also that the lay audience likely sees things differently than more (Magic) trained or informed viewers. It ain't "The Move", it's the whole package. The very generous Dr Larry Barnowsky has an incredibly good ROV vanish, and published it in "21st Century Coin Mechanics" It's out there for the purchase... and practice. If one substituted his ROVV for Mickey's you could do some of what Mickey does, sleight-wise. But... nobody does. It ain't the move. The sleight is merely one means to an end. To the best of my knowledge, only Jim Canaday and Vinny Marini have been shown the actual mechanics of Mickey's SUV, and Vinny has stated categorically that it differs from Dr Barnowsky's. (And Jim, being a card guy, quickly "forgot" so he "can't" tell me, lol!) This thread started out to be about the rest of the package, nothing else. [Again, MY opinion. Mickey: please correct me if I am wrong.] You do actually need to see him live to get the full picture. A few years ago I showed Mickey how I was doing a coin to breast pocket, without a silk. He said "Great! And you don't even need a pocket!" and immediately disappeared a silver dollar into a fold of my T-shirt. No set-up, no fancy dancing, and his hands were clean. The videos he's posting here are acknowledged as old rehearsal tapes. He's trying different stuff on, to see if it fits. It fits when he performs for an audience, lay or initiates. So Mickey, answer my questions already (note: this is where I get to be narcissistic and behave like MY questions are important, lol. Me, ME!) 1) Basketball: You play as a kid? If not, how did you begin training for head/eye/body-fakes? 2) Dropping a coin: I've never seen you flash, but have seen you, for lay audiences, drop a coin. Your reasoning for this is...? 3) Do you use a twin camera synched set-up to see your performance AND follow the spectators eye and head movents? These are some of your Psychological Secrets which I really would like to learn! |
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evikshin Special user 893 Posts |
FeiFongWong,
You don't need to feel bad for not liking Mickey Silver's style, nor do you deserve to be put down for it. We all like different things. Hell, there are magicians which a lot of people speak highly of, but who bore me to tears when I watch them. We all have different tastes. I happen to love Mickey's style, you don't like it as much. That's perfectly OK! However, one thing I want you to consider: There is a thin line between "style" and "technique." That is, some magicians may do somethings a certain way because that is what feels natural to them--it is their style. However, Mickey's gestures and movements are not only just a "style," they are perfectly calculated--they exist for a reason! He's not just moving in a weird, flamboyant way just to do it--Those "crazy" movements help aid in the deception. He's put a lot of thought into his gestures and feints, and he even teaches them in his instructional booklet. I've adapted a lot of his movements into my coin technique (with his permission of course ):). You make a good point about not becoming a "caricature" of a magician. Some of Mickey's routines do certainly come across that way, but he also has routines that would work in an impromptu situation, which do not come across as "performance" (your words), but as real, tangible magic. For instance, his coin through table. Could you imagine performing that for a stranger in a restaurant? They would bug out!! E. |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Hi Mark,Mickey tought me his SUV some 10 years ago.
he tipped it to me I because magicians said what he did could not be taught , they were of course wrong/ several of my very good magician friendshave come very close to Mickey' SUV , although whenthey excicute the slight there's still the one thing Mick does that's invisible to the naked eye that makes his retention of vision so much better. I my self have never performed the SUV in public, because Mickey has trusted me with his seceret move. Hi Evan what you said about Mickey is so true if you see Mick perform in person and impromptu senerio all you have to do is watch the audience and see their reactions , Evando you remember when he performed his coin thru the glass door at the hotel entrance some 100 people gathered and all were in awh.... They did not know it at the time but they were watching the greatest coin performer of this century.. |
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evikshin Special user 893 Posts |
Hey Vinny, you are absolutely right about seeing him in public! I'm very impressed with his audience management skills. Vinny, how about a coin through window using the Crimp?
E. |
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Mickey certainly performs in a different way than many coin magicians. Doesn’t mean he is wrong for being different! He is so well respected in great part because of how his performance differs from most others. As quoted by Dick Cavett in his excellent NY Times blog post about Tony Slydini:
Quote:
"Slydini. Just typing those three syllables even now gives me a frisson....This legendary conjurer, born Quintino Marucci in Italy, found close-up magic wanting and simply re-invented it (“I wanted to take out all the phony-looking stuff”). He toured the world, working in several languages." I have read similar about Slydini elsewhere but couldn't say where at the moment. However the point is that Slydini learned magic as an adolescent from some old books he found while cleaning out shelves in a bookshop. But while he fell in love with magic and particularly sleight of hand, he didn't like the methods and techniques that he learned. So he basically determined what he felt would look very magical to spectators and then developed his own (at the time) unique methods for making those effects happen. A system of misdirection and body movements that made him one of the all-time greats. He invented what he felt were the most deceptive moves to make his magic more "magical"! Mickey seems to have done much of the same as Slydini in that he didn't quite feel that what he could learn from others was exactly how he thought it was done best. So he re-invented performance techniques that best suited him and his brand of coin magic. And IMO he has been immensely successful with his performance methods. Like 'em or not! :) Thanks! Jim |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Evan yes The Crimp lives on lol
J Mac you forget one thing, Mickey is not seated at a table .Slydini performed his magic seated .Mickey is always in short sleeves can't say this about others,Micky performs surrounded , can't say this about others either Two great magicians both unique and both different styles. the godfather |
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canaday Special user Florida 740 Posts |
Spitzer,
Thanks for your kind comments but they are inaccurate. Mickey once asked me if I wanted to learn the SUB and I said No Thanks. I am not a coin guy and would never use it. Still I was flattered that he asked. Hopefully you will get to spend some time with the Mick this weekend at the Cape Cod Conclave. |
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canaday Special user Florida 740 Posts |
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that I also did not have 20 years to practice it.
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Mipple New user London, UK 76 Posts |
Lots of interesting thoughts on Mickey's presentational style. I'd have to say that I'm another person who prefers a more 'natural' style and I find that quite a few of Mickey's gestures grate on me a bit. BUT - the effects he's pulling off here are absolutely mind-boggling and, judging from some of his comments and the huge amount of thought and practice that he clearly puts into his magic, I'm guessing that most (possibly even all?) of the gestures that I find slightly annoying are increasing the impact of the magic. If that's the case (and I'm sure it is, given all the testimonials to the audience reactions that Mickey gets), then his presentation is working exactly as intended.
One other thing possibly worth noting: I suspect that my perception is twisted a bit since the videos only show individual effect presentations with nothing else before or after. It wouldn't surprise me if all the things that seem a bit 'unnatural' at the moment made a lot more sense to me if I saw them in the context of an entire performance. |
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Orb New user 90 Posts |
I'm a big fan of Mickey Silver, both his performances, techniques and psychology, however, I think you have some very legit questions FFW.
MB, from what I see, you one second tell him that it's ok to have a different opinion, and then that he's silly for it. None of his questions were actually answered, only blurry (and in my opinion, irrational) examples were given. To me, what you wrote is not having a way with words, it's accusing him in quite mean ways in a decrypted text. It's not very nice. |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
That's your opinion Orb, do with it what you will. I stand by what I said and why I said it. If someone here thought that I made sense, then who are you to say that isn't as legit as what you're saying here when you're basically just speaking up for what you think here? I hope it's OK if everyone doesn't think like you and see things so clearly, "in your opinion" as it were.
Yes, it's OK to have an opinion, no problem with that but the niceties start getting stripped away when you start calling things "crazy" simply because you don't happen to like them, in the manner FFW did initially...Go back and check the lineage of the posts and you will see that I simply responded to what he first said each time. You think my analogies are blurry and irrational, that's your opinion but actually they are not blurry and clearly someone here perhaps many saw it differently. I doubt if as many people are as confused as you are about what I said or take such exception with it. How I said it is exactly what I meant. But suffice it to say, I plainly meant what I said and wouldn't have said it otherwise if I didn't mean it, just the way I said it. My responses are as legit as FFW's questions, if you just "decrypt" yourself then perhaps you might be able to more clearly see that or not. Guess you don't like Michael Jackson huh? Well, for what it's worth, I like Sinatra too. At least we're both "big fans' of Mickey Silver, funny how we got that part right. Have a great day all. Oh and Orb, more to the topic here, what do you think about the differences mentioned by Vinny as to what Mickey does and what Slydini did?
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Orb New user 90 Posts |
That's true, I'm only offering my opinion, as you offered yours.
I think this comes down to how you interpret "Crazy", to me, there's no negative cling to this word, instead it marks something that we don't understand, or simply find surprising. Again, the way I interpreted the word, was very neutral, yours was obviously different. I do however feel that hostality only breeds hostality (the way I interpreted your message, was that it was filled with passive aggressiveness, even if it may not have been). Indeed a really interesting question, because to me, there's no doubt that what Mickey Silver is doing, works. He seem to be the most successfull coin magician of our time, and audiences seem to absolutely love him. I don't think anyone can question that what he's doing, works. However, what can be questioned is, why does it work? And, is everything he's doing, needed? Or are there excessive movements that harm more than they do good? One of his biggest assets would probably be his personality, and knowledge about human behavior. But what if he took only those 2 things, went to the path of the "naturalistic-looking magic", what would be the result, and why? To me, all these unmotivated transfers (again, this has proven so many times to really work for him) make him seem more like an illusionist than a magician. And as much as that sounds like an insult, it's really not, why does the genre matter as long what he's doing is working? Is he more of an illusionist, than a magician? Isn't the purpose of magic to present the impossible, leaving no traces? Does he even leave traces, with his unmotivated retention passes? Or does it go in the same matter of a bigger action (something completely vanishing) covering a smaller one (something unmotivated occuring)? Again, there's so much I don't understand, and that others also don't understand, and with his extreme uniqueness and big success, it seems only natural that we question the things he do, for they do work, but why do, or even should they? |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Hello Orb question did you ever see mickey perform live ??/ these videos were shot some 8 to 10 years ago.
What mickey does makes him special, he is not a clone to any one if you look at all thge neutralistic magics you speak aboput they all look the same , nothing new is happening very boring................. not so with Mickey ,but he must be seen live not on camera.. |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
"Interpretation" is important, it's what helps to color opinion. To me, his use of "crazy" was somewhat callously placed and that's with me also understanding the definition(s) of the word's usage. In that context it didn't come across as something he simply might not have understood but something he also just didn't approve of, couldn't find a place for in his reality. Oh well, to each his own right.
I agree with Vinny pretty much. Instead of asking all these questions about why something works (you usually ask why something doesn't work) as well as what Mickey does works, seeing the guy would settle a lot of things in your mind IMHO. If he is such an enigma to you perhaps you should make a pilgrimage to see this man do his thing, don't you think he would be worth it, this thing you don't quite understand? So, do you think the rest of the folks understand Mickey or just enjoy him and don't know what they should perhaps be questioning in what he does? Do you think folks should trudge beyond enjoying the guy and figuring out why they enjoy him so much and would that make someone enjoy him even more? Sorta like a good piece of chocolate cake, should we be looking deeper into the ingredients to understand better why we love the taste so well, why it makes us happy when we mix it with a tall glass of cold milk? I'm just asking as to your need to know. For me, it's refreshing not to see Mickey as most other coin magicians present themselves. It's like watching kids when they do Roth effects say, "That's a silver coin, a half dollar, a fifty cent piece" verbatim as they do his effects. I like when Mickey goes back to the hand to show that the coin is indeed still there within his routines. Most do not do this because they don't want to draw any further attention to the hand. Mickey can draw all the attention in the world and instantly reset your line of logic as you follow along, the coin is there, the coin is not even though as he says, the coin is never in that hand. The transfers are different and clearly effective and do not thwart the magic in the least to the viewer that wants to be entertained. And I think a coin man that is an illusionist is better than just a coin man, just like chocolate syrup on vanilla ice cream (and I know you hate these analogies) is a bit better than just a bowl of vanilla ice cream in most cases, is it not? I don't have a problem with whether or not Mickey is considered an illusionist or not. To most people he is just an amazing magician as I don't think they break magic down like you are doing here. Magic is when people see the impossible happen and marvel at it happening from a mere mortal, whether it is illusion-like or straight-up magic w/no chaser. I happen to like both and would consider nothing less of either in my final amazement of the "now you see it, now you don't" presented me. Good talk.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-05 08:19, vinsmagic wrote: Hi Vinny. My point wasn’t to compare Mickey to Slydini as to style. It was just to illustrate that both felt that the sleight of hand being performed by most wasn’t adequate for what they wanted to do, so each developed their own sleights, their own performance methods that were very different from most other coin magicians. They are alike in that respect IMO. Thanks! Jim |
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