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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3086 Posts |
I appreciate, Craig, you responding to the contradictory posts. I'm sure the apology is appreciated by Jamie, Colin and Vanishing Inc. BUT...You have a large and growing viewing audience and many people, not all, make buying decisions based on yours and Dave's reviews. With your growing popularity and because you review as well as to try and entertain, along with that comes great responsibility. Sure, it's fine to be funny and try new things to connect with your audience but not at the expense of a ill-planned review of a product. If you reviewed Legacy "properly" and gave it 10% all well and good.
You guys should make sure of your target BEFORE pulling the trigger. The person that shoots someone by mistake and says "I'm sorry", well, the damage is done. Just a note about wallet inspection you mentioned. I use CTW/Mullica constantly. Can I let the spectator inspect it? No. They should want to after the effect but they never do. They want to see the deck if anything. There is absolutely NO-HEAT on the wallet in Legacy and no impetus for them to want to inspect it. (Performed properly like all magic should be) Take Care, Dave
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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paisa23 Inner circle 7293 Posts |
Hey, its a review show and with that its all up to what you might get out of it... Me personally I enjoy Legacy, but I also enjoy Heirloom and Killer Elite Pro. Its some of those effects that will get most if not all Laymen and a few Magicians to be honest but I think some of the people who have an issue with this is the Effect.. Not presentation, we are falling into that realm of thinking like magicians not laymen.. I didn't have an issue with the show this week, if Dave and Craig didn't find it amazing that is perfectly fine, although I for some reason thought Dave would(JUST BY PRIOR EPISODES) but none the less for the viewers who have never seen Legacy performed I think the original trailer works better. Not to say that Matt was bad but I think he felt a little rushed and pressured. Also remember he tried to defend the effect to the two STARS of the show you know. Either way I liked the show as always and enjoy Legacy....
Here are two quick performances of me using Legacy on Lay people.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ9rCrtj90s and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUhPXKmQAT4
June 22 2012 9:02 AM baby Usnavi was born!
http://twitter.com/paisa233 http://www.facebook.com/people/Wilder-J-Rua/505202382 http://www.myspace.com/wildrua |
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randirain Inner circle Fort Worth, TX 1650 Posts |
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Here are two quick performances of me using Legacy on Lay people.... Sorry for going off topic... I think you should stop using 'Saved By The Bell' in your routine. That show was stupid and anyone that admits to watching it is a dork. If you want to talk about subliminal messages... Talk about how movie theaters used to add subliminal messages in the movies to get you to buy snacks. It might not be actually true, but it's better than 'Saved By The Bell'. Randi |
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tester2006 Loyal user 210 Posts |
I look forward to the WPR each week and I have to admit I was a little disappointed in the review of Legacy. I own the trick and love it. Granted I am a hobbyist and this trick is easy to learn and my spectators have been genuinely surprised each time I performed the effect. Yes there are some negatives but for me I think it is a great trick. I think Matt actually liked the trick but he wasn't given a fair chance to perform since it seems Craig and Dave were heckling him throughout the effect. Sadly the card chosen selected did not lead to one of the stronger reveals. I think if Craig expressed his feedback as he did in the above post it would have been a little bit more constructive. All Craig's points are valid but instead of only listing negatives he could have ended saying if you are a hobbyist and like this genre of magic then this may not be a bad fit for you.
In regards to the wallet, no one has noticed anything peculiar about the wallet and no one has asked to examine it. Its called audience management and its required in almost any effect performed these days. For me personally I give it 85%. I still love WPR and will keep watching! |
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equivoque Special user 861 Posts |
I give it 40% For $50.00 you get a one in 5 prediction? Please. With all do respect to Matthew, when you are demonstrating one trick at a time behind a magic counter it may play well, but in the real world why would a performer carry yet another wallet around when he/she could get a showdown (or many other wallets on the market) that will do a 1 in 52 card prediction and be a peek wallet. Sure as a hobbyist, it may impress your friends, but even they may begin to get suspicious of your wallet collection.
Here you go: http://www.stevensmagic.com/gemini/Ted%2......lope.htm make a Kismet envelope and three df cards yourself for about $3.00 and you will have a much better effect. Want them to look old? Rub some brown shoe polish on them. And please, make up your own story because if I hear another tale about a magician's fake grandfather I am going to projectile vomit! |
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
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On 2011-04-21 20:39, randirain wrote: I’ll definitely have to agree with Randi on this. “Saved by the Bell”!! Sorry, but I’m 64 and I’ve never watched it albeit I’ve heard of it. I’m retired and I happened to come upon it on some obscure channel that plays the old T.V. programs and I got into about fifteen minutes of it and…..WOW! Talk about a brain dead program! People actually watched that (expletive deleted)! Then again, consider my age, or then again, PLEASE don’t! As far as what Randi said, I more or less do the same thing as in relation to subliminal messages, (if I use that option), but I refer to how this type of thing became more and more popular in the mid to late 50’s on television commercials which, by the way, it did. If you sincerely feel it relates to your audience……eh….OK. However I would strongly suggest you change the story line if you wish to go with the subliminal message theme. After all, not all people are going to relate to “Saved by the Bell”. Well, at least not the people that I deal with. Just a thought to consider, and well pointed out by Randi.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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Judah Vee Special user of the JV Naughty Vanish.... 884 Posts |
And once again, Craig shows me that even the best can make a mistake. That guy has class in spades. To come on and apologize? I tip my hat to you Sir. And to not bow down, and still offer his opinion about not really liking this effect? CLASS! I still like the effect, and still like WPR. Looking forward to next weeks show.....
-J-
I don't care how fast or slow you are.... As long as I am faster.. -J-
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Amazing Samdini New user Playa Vista CA 66 Posts |
Unless I had a senior moment, I didn't hear price consideration mentioned in the Minimax review. Call me old-fashioned (cheap?), but that's an element I look for in a review, especially in a product that cost $99. I know the guys have talked about price on come products in the past. Apparently it wasn't an issue, so I guess they thought the cost was worth it. I'm not a professional with a paying gig, so I appreciate it when Craig mentions hobbyists in a review.
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jbadman Special user London 984 Posts |
First, Craig - the apology is appreciated. These things happen and as I said in an earlier post, you're on that show to entertain. It's just unfortunate that you chose Legacy to be the brunt of this. I'm certain it will affect some sales but hopefully not too many.
To address a few of your points: Three Card Monte: 1 in 3 chance of success (or 2 in 3 depending on what side of the table you're on!) Any card with ESP Symbols: 1 in 5 Endless Chain: 1 in 2 Russian Roulette: 5 in 6 chance Spike (or similar - the cup over a spike routine): 2 in 3, up to 4 in 5 Dai Vernon's 5 Card Trick: 1 in 5 All of the above, when performed well are fantastic despite having relatively low 'odds'- so personally I think this is a non-issue. As for "Because they're playing cards it's obviously multiple outs", well first, yes maybe to a magician this is the case but not from a spectator's perspective. Out of interest, though, if this were a choice of, say, five different photographs rather than five playing cards, would it be a better routine do you think? Jamie.
http://www.underground-collective.com - check out our new DVD now!
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-22 16:39, jbadman wrote: Well put Jamie, and as I pointed out in one of my posts; no one seems to have any issues in regards to the ESP symbols of which there are only 5. After all, 5 cards, no matter what they have on their face, or how many times you count them, is still......5! Other than that, I still love Craig's and David's reviews, appreciate their off beat and humorous reviews and will still continue and look forward to them each Wednesday. It was just a shame that they chose Legacy to try something different, and I certainly hope it doesn't in any way reflect on possible sales.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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rnaviaux Loyal user 287 Posts |
Its a review show. I don't agree with everything they say about products out there. If they are off the mark too many times then I will probably not use them as a barometer for effects I might purchase.
I don't always agree with Ebert's movie reviews but I still use him as he seems to match my views on things more often than not. I really disagreed with his review of "Kick-A$$" but I understand his take on it. I don't think Craig and Dave have anything to apologize for though. If they upset enough people then they will pay the price. Reduced sales or bad reviews in return on their products. They are entertaining though. Some of the comments about the Legacy product did make me realize who this effect would be perfect for. Demonstrators. They have a constant influx of new people coming into a store so MO's are not a concern. No sleight of hand needed so they can sell it to anyone. (I've been a demonstrator.) Hobbyists will purchase this and can perform it for their usual audiences with no problem. A restaurant worker could also use this as he has lots of new people to show it to as well. I've never seen a restaurant magician before so don't really know if this is a good effect for that venue though. I have done the endless chain effect before which is a 1 out of two. The catch with that is that it can be repeated so I'm not sure if that is a valid comparison. I think the old effect with three different colored cards (can't remember its name) which uses MO's is a more valid comparison. I sold a bunch of those. Yes that effect really fooled some people and some not so much. Legacy certainly has a better look and feel to it. Joshua's presentation is very polished, no doubt. (I would use a very old bill like silver certificate.) |
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sabitu Special user USA 533 Posts |
Saved By The Bell rocks!
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TCG438 New user 95 Posts |
Well said rnaviaux.
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NYCJoePitt Special user 558 Posts |
I guess I can never be Randi's friend because I like Saved By the Bell too.
PS. Isn't calling people dorks in the magic world kind of lame, hater, and obvious, all at the same time? I try to stay away from name calling on the boards. But I must be a dork, because I feel pretty ambivalent about LEGACY. I read all the additional reviews and watched the other YouTube performances of it. I can see where it might play off as a strong effect to a layman, but it still does not appeal to me all that much. I do appreciate all the additional discussion about it. |
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
I don’t know, but I seem to be having extremely good success and reactions with Legacy.
However, I really take my time in my presentation and always go with the subliminal message theme. I’m certainly not going to bore you with the story I give, but I state right from the start that I am going to try and influence the spectator with subliminal messages. As a matter of fact, when I get to the point where I ask the spectator to choose a card; I tell them that I feel like I’ve already succeeded in influencing them with subliminal messages in my story, and the things that I tell them in relationship to my story in regards to the five cards into choosing the card that I want them to choose right before they do so. At times it can get rather amusing when I tell them that they can change their mind after they choose a card as they become quite flustered into thinking that perhaps I want them to change their minds. This plays out quite well, and more often than not I end up having a lot of fun in messing about with their mind. Of course it always turns out in my favor no matter which card they choose and you can see their minds churning as to how I might have possibly influenced them into choosing the card that I wanted them to. Then again, this all greatly depends on how you present it which I seriously doubt someone who is merely demonstrating this trick in a store would take the time to do as more likely than not they would not have the time to do so. As for some type of currency being introduced that was Josh’s personal way of presenting it, and I personally find no need whatsoever of including it in the way I present it. Granted, this really can’t be performed for the same person, but then again, there are many great effects that fall into that category. Quote:
On 2011-04-22 23:28, NYCJoePitt wrote: First, I never noticed that Randi used the word “dork” when I made my reply to what she said. You’re absolutely right, as there is no need to resort to name calling. As for me, you’ll have to take my age into consideration and, I personally, thought the program was absolutely brain dead, but....whatever. If it happens to work in with the age of the crowd you are working with then by all means go for it if you feel it might work. As for; “I can see where it might play off as a strong effect to a layman”, well....isn’t that who a magician does magic for?? Obviously, this wouldn’t play strong in the least bit for another magician, but then again, who cares? That is unless of course you often perform magic for other magicians which I never do.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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Lou Cirulli Special user 587 Posts |
I watched Saved by The Bell every week when I was a kid! In high school I was voted Biggest Jock and had a 4.0 gpa. I must be the king of dorks!!!!
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yin_howe Special user Malaysia 981 Posts |
Re Legacy, I do not own it, but based on the performances of Matthew (WPR) and paisa23, I think it plays well with laymen. However, due to the nature of the method, you won't be able to perform this anyone who's seen it before again.. ever! and there's also the price factor.
Therefore, 45% from me.
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
https://www.youtube.com/user/yinhowe80/ |
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jbadman Special user London 984 Posts |
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On 2011-04-24 06:54, yin_howe wrote: Just a personal thing, but I try to never repeat an effect for the same spectator; I think it's generally a bad idea. Regarding the price factor, take a look at what you get for your money and the quality of it all before you make a judgement like that. Jamie.
http://www.underground-collective.com - check out our new DVD now!
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equivoque Special user 861 Posts |
I agree, in that, I never saw the value in repeating the same effect for the same spectator. Unless it builds, it lessens the impact each time.
The issue for me is that while many effects are 1 in 3 or one in 5, I would not do them if they required a special wallet or took up that much pocket space. Three card monte can be and usually is a a multi-phased effect and danger montes have, well the element of danger. I can also get a lot of mileage out of a stacked esp card deck (especially for $7.). Free Chance, on Bill Goldman's Two For The Money (which has been called over priced) has similar odds but it also really engages the audience and all you need to do is stick six cards in your pocket. Clearly this is a nice routine with good quality props that will play well at a magic shop when demoed. All that aside, unless your a a hobbyist looking to show your friends at work something, $50. may seem like a bit much for the impact of this effect. |
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
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On 2011-04-24 09:13, equivoque wrote: I still can’t comprehend this ridiculous rational that this effect is only good for hobbyists, and or for demonstrating at a store, which of course makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard anyone refer to a magic trick by saying; “Well, it’s a good demo trick, but that’s about it”! As for its size it really packs quite small as it only measures: 3 ¼” x 5” and is only ¼ “ thick. Other than that I’d strongly suggest you find a different magic dealer to purchase your tricks from! I got mine for $36.00 and retail price is $39.99 and not $50.00!
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Wizard Product Review from World Magic Shop » » Wizard Product Review 48 - 20-4-2011: (Legacy, Smoke, Minimax, IncREDiBULL) (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
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