Conventional wisdom has it that "danger effects" or anything with blood, scary stuff ,etc. are strictly verboten for kid shows .

David Kaye (Silly Billy) has a character called Dr. Blood:

http://www.sillybillymagic.com/DrBlood.html

I've often wondered about the validity of the "no scary/danger effects" rule for kids . (I agree with the rule as it applies to very young children). I personally don't care for most danger/mutilation tricks and it would not be my style to do a show like that for any audience , but I don't know if I really think most kids today are all that scared by those types of magic tricks . It's more of a "fun scary" thing, like rollercoasters . Most kids 8 and over are watching PG-13 (and , sadly, even R rated ) movies that have much more intense effects than say, The French Arm Chopper. Plus, kids go to Halloween haunted houses that are much scarier and gory than than anything I've ever seen in a magic show . How truly scary can magic tricks be to a kid raised on this type of entertainment ?

Just to be clear: I don't agree with letting young children watch PG 13 and R movies, it's just a fact of life in A.D. 2003 . ( my wife and I carefully screen what our kids watch and we don't tend to watch a lot of TV anyway. Our boys are 14 and 12 and the most intense thing we've taken them to are The Lord of the Rings movies . Our family rents a lot of classic movies , which means "G" rated , for general audiences . )

You can also do a element of danger with somthing like a balloon (needle thru) or rope thru body. You could use a prop such as a spider, snake or you could just tell a spookie story.

I'm more opposed to certain danger tricks (not all) as they are things that children may try themselves. A local magician recently did a trick at a fair where he has three blocks of wood, one of which has a sharpened spike sticking up from it. He brings up a volunteer and places three paper bags over them and has the volunteer mix them up. He then slaps his hand down one-at-a-time onto two of them. Of course they are the ones without a spike. This guy's a kids magician and also does magic classes for kids and runs an SYM (where he's also done fire tricks for them).

I do a balloon swallow routine. I will not do it if even one young person is in the audience.

Mike

My rule in doing anything that has danger involved is if a kid can go home and hurt himself or others by imitating it, then I don't do it.

I like to build up tricks with stories and have things jump out etc, but no real danger.

Hmm that reminds me of the routine in Tim Ellis lecture that featured a Freddy Glove.

I am currently thinking about adapting the routine to a Wolverine Claw Glove. That is if I can find one.

Probably ebay or my favorite relocating magic store ---
a garage sale or thrift store.

Harris

I disagree that conventional wisdom says you can't do danger tricks. They can & always have played very well for children & family audiences. There are rules however & you break them at your peril. If you want to learn more about performing danger tricks for children I recommend getting one of David Ginn's books about the subject. He performs danger tricks in all of his shows (except day cares & kindergartens).

I agree with Andy as well. I have never had a kid go home and make a gullutine and stick their sisters head in it.

I too would not do anything scary in a Pre-k , daycare show.

As for Sill Billy doing his DR blood show. He does this show manily for the older boys and he does this show ALOT and everyone including the parents love it.
Ken

My take on not doing dangerous tricks is completely based on practicality rather than stagecraft, performance or the like.

In today's litigus society, anything you model for a child (read that anyone under 12) that could be the least bit dangerous if they were to try it - and they ignore the "Kids don't try this at home," and try it anyway, could make you liable.

I know it is stupid but a good legal argument can be made for, kids copying what they see adults do. With the paltry sum I get for a single kids show, I don't want to be on the receiving end of some frivilous lawsuit.

As always, you may do what you feel is best. My opinion is just that and worth every penny you have paid to read it.

Please don't forget - David is working in NYC. His audience is different than the audience most of the rest of us have. Not better, not worse - just different.

I personally like danger tricks, and I’d include them in my program every time I have the Mom’s or school principal’s (in the case of school shows) permission to use them.

Yes, I’d ask permission. I’d explain to them what a hand chopper is---that it is scary to kids, but that it is actually safe; that there is no blood or gore involved, and that the trick is fun all throughout the performance because my presentation includes lots of comedy, gags and byplays.

95% of the time the Mom or principal would give me their permission. In the 5% of the time that the Mommy doesn’t want it in the program, I leave it out. After all, mothers know best what’s good for their kids.

Ben Benjay
Manila, Philippines

My take on this topic is that I personally do not perform anything in my shows where if I felt a child could imitate it and get hurt by what they saw me do. It does become a legal thing that I am very aware of.

Also, for my own personal charaacter, scary and dangerous effects really do not fit in. My personna is really much more of a fun guy who is clumsy and comical yet knows some really neat things.

With this said, I do feel you can use danger but do it in a fun way and where the danger effects you and not an audience member. For example, I often times will use a comedy sausage gun when doing my comedy egg can routine. This is a comedy comical prop that in no way resemables a gun at all. It just looks like a funny gizmo whos sole purpose is to try and vanish the eggs still inside the can. Of course it never works. This requires me to examine the batteries. The compartment has spring sausage links that shoot out at me.

Now this certainly has a danger and suspense element to it and it is startling to the audience. But the danger is placed on me and in that way it becomes comical and funny.

Hi Dai:

I perform the wrist chopper at birthday parties (8 years and older) and the head chopper for larger shows. They're almost always the hit of the shows; they create a lot of excitement and tension - then there's that great release once it is over. Kids want to know all about them after the show. I've done surveys too: The chopper is invariably the favorite routine.

I think the chopper is good, harmless fun! So, does David Ginn, Chris Carey, the late Brian Flora, and a host of others that are experts when it comes to kids.

Ron Reid

HI,
This season I have been working regularly in a large atraction with a theatre which seats 750 people this is a family attraction. I was asked by the directors of the company to perform a combo of my adult and kid show which I do. They wanted the guilotine which is a part of my adult show . I warned them that some of the small kids might cry but they wanted it and that's what they got. OK the long and short is that out of an average house of 700, each show brought in an average of 8 complaints regarding the guilotine. Add to this the fact that british people are not huge on complaining (though they are getting worse) and that's pretty high in my opinion ... Yes we took it out of the show. I have not done a danger trick in my kids show for many years now... but I had no objections to using them or anyone else using them... this has certainly made me re think
Phillip

I guess you just have to weigh it yourself and ask yourself is it really worth it for you to to a danger type of an efect in the show. I guess it really does change from person to person.

Personally, i have never felt right performing a danegr type of trick where by any young child could get harmed if they tried it at home. I just feel that is not responsible of me to do that. just my opinion is all.

It's all about the expectations of your audience.

People go to a scary movie or haunted house attraction expecting to be scared.

People go to a magic show expecting to see magic.

Now, if you promote yourself as a Scary Magic Show, the audience can decide if they want to book it or go see it in advance.

If you offer a magic show for children, and then whip out a miniature version of an device used for executions (ie: Guillotine) they may have a justifiable reason for complaining.

As far as kids copying what you do... no, they won't go make a guilotine, but they may try to see if a knife will cut through their arm or neck. Some kids just don't realise that magic is fake. One entertainer I knew used to do thimbles for kids shows, until the day he received a call from a distressed parent after her child had swallowed a small object... just like the magician did when he "swallowed" the thimble and it reappeared from his stomach.

Kids do copy you.

One of the best kids entertainers I know even goes to the extent of only using certain colour modelling balloons. Why? Because IF a kid does happen to swallow a piece of burst balloon, some colours show up under X Ray at the hospital, others don't. If a child swallows one of her balloons, she wants the doctors to be able to find it and remove it asap.

Think of every child in the audience as your child and maybe you'll reconsider some of the material in your show.

TIM ELLIS
http://www.MagicUnlimited.com

Tim:
First I would like to say a big welcome to the Café. My wife and I met you at the SAM convention in Vegas and we really appreciated your time with our SYM kids as well as having us help judge the Magic Sports. Hope your trip went well for you.

With that out of the way, Tim is right. Kids will indeed copy and mimic you. Why? Because kids livge in a fantasy world and to them the world is magical and magic really can happen. If the magician can do it, then why can't I.

It is just safer not to include tricks like that in your shows. I think a show can be just as dynomite without having to worry if a child is going to get hurt or if any of the parents will be offended by what your presenting to their kids.

Regarding David's character of Dr. Blood.....

David explained to me the formation of the character...it is geared for the children who have outgrown "Silly Billy". I don't think he would consider doing the Dr. Blood character for little Suzie's sixth birthday party. But, he would consider doing Dr. Blood for Mikey's 8th grade Halloween party! It all depends on your target audience.

Margarette

I guess it does depend on your target audience as well as your location. I just feel, personally, that if I do something that could be harmful if a kid copies my performance, then I simply do not and will not perform it.

It is just my personal way of dealing with it. I just would rather not have a kid potentially get hurt because of something he/she saw me do "by magic".

hear hear kyle,

It's not just the danger of the kids copying you and getting hurt, A children's magic show is supposed to be fun, not scary and some kids get genuinley worried/scared when they see this stuff. I've picked up a few shows from people who last year booked a guy down here in plymouth and were unhappy that he did the electric sawing in half trick. "Well never book him again" is a common thread in the conversation with them. along with "You shouldn't do stuff like that for kids, my daughter was petrified she came running over and sat on my lap and wouldn't watch"

The question is:_

Do you use these effects to entertain the kids you've been booked to perform for, or to try and show the grown ups what a fantsticly clever magician you are? 'Look I know I'm only doing a kids show, but I can do proper magic stuff like David Copperfield really'

Clive that is exactly correct. I feel a lot of magicians perform these style of tricks because they 1) want to impress the adults and 2) that want to impress themselves.

They often forget the real reason they got hired in the first place is simply to entertain the kids and have a good time. I can have a lot of fun and get the kids really enjoying themselves without the use of a sawing in half or other dangerous style tricks.

If I have to result to that type of a thing to get reactions, then it really is time I evaluate my show from scratch.