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Jaz2005 Veteran user I wish I had time to get more than 339 Posts 
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Flec Special user UK 585 Posts
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Is there a contradiction here? First saying that Rattled will become a utility item that will be mentioned in books and DVD's for years to come....but with Render you have to go out and buy the App and the Video for a small charge, and it's a disgrace?
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MarcLavelle Loyal user Birmingham 260 Posts
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Rattled can be done with every day objects and has a LOT of uses.
Making things appear from your iPhone... Not so many uses... If you want to go to the trouble of things appearing from your phone, you may as well buy card2phone from the app store. (warning, you can upgrade it to pro, to receive further items). Rattled: Render: 1 trick pony: No. Yes. Examinable before and after: Yes. No, not at all. Well made: Yes. No. Pocket space: Good. Depends on how many things you want to produce. Worth the price: Yes. No. Easy to do: Yes. Apparently needs a lot of practice. Also with rattled, the spectator 'feels' the magic, with render they are simply a spectator. With the app I previously mentioned you can produce the item ON TO the spectator's hand, and cleanly hand everything out for examination. |
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dp Veteran user 345 Posts
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Hi Flec,
The issue here is that a magic product’s trailer implies what you will get when you purchase the effect! The crane effect looks awesome and is a real selling point on the trailer. To not find that on the DVD to download is a major disappointment. The fact that Rattled will be mentioned by other lecturers is not a contradiction I believe because at the point it is mentioned or recommended it will be clear that they are not including that as part of the sale. Hope that helps but naturally I fully respect your opinion if you feel it is ok to show effects on the trailer and then charge extra for them after you have purchased the product. All the best Thanks for watching Dave
Close Up Magician & Illusionist - David Penn
Search The Wizard Product Review at http://www.worldmagicshop.com |
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Craig Petty V.I.P. UK 2325 Posts
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With rattled you get everything you need to perform the effect. You do not need anything else - everything shown in the trailer you can do.
With Render there are several things you cannot do without additional purchases. If a creator wanted tobuse rattled to create a routine and then sold it that would be okay as long as it was made clear on the trailer they needed to make an additional purchase. Does that make sense? Craig |
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thoughtthief10 New user 79 Posts
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Back up the truck!! Great episode guys.Does Sean Scott put out anything that is actually useable in the real world?? I got a copy of Tool this morning from David but have not watched it yet, should be great though.Craig you will love sugar rush! I got it weeks ago and it's so much fun to practice in front of the mirror you will fool yourself.
Brian |
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thorsten dankworth Regular user 101 Posts
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Thanks for the honest review of Render.
To show an effect I can´t do without buying something extra that is not mentioned is not just rubbish, it´s swindling. I know that I never ever won´t buy that crap! Thanks Dave and Craig for this warning. |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts
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Great comedy opening!
 (But Dave if you are going to copy someone's act get yourself an offensively loud sequined jacket and learn to sing out of tune! Also, the sound coming from your keyboard was actually quite pleasant, which is more than I can say about Jean's. It's also fair that now you are doing her act, she has a right to do yours and I can't wait for the video of her trying to get in and out of your box in less than 3 hours with the aid of a crane. )
Loved Rattled (As already demonstrated by the wonderfully versatile, multi-talented Master-Magician Matthew) and would love to get it, but just won't fit into a mentalism act. It's even reasonably priced  I hate you!
I also have to agree with the comments on Render: It's a con! You want to be able to and fully expect to be able to perform the effect demonstrated without having to buy anything else. If not, what are you buying? Not even a disclosure in the ad copy fully explaining this? And his stropy attitude on the other thread like it's the customers fault that they expected to do what they saw when buying his product alone is very out of order. Add that that is has major angle problems, is considered flimsy by some and totally impractical, and it's a clear MISS with nasty undertones. - AVOID!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Flec Special user UK 585 Posts
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Cheers guys, good reply - I can see both sides of the argument.
I can think of literally dozens of DVD's I've bought where an effect on the trailer has more or less sold it to me, and once I get home and put the DVD on, I realise I've got to go back out and buy extra things that aren't mentioned on the DVD. Sometimes it's something as simple as a TT, other times it might be rubber cement, a swami, wax, etc. I'm not arguing for or against either product, just thinking that maybe the app and the movie file you need are treated just the same as other utilities..as there looks to be other effects you can do aside from the origami effect. |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts
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Yes but those things that you mention are the secret things that you don't expect to be told about on the demo video.
The thing that is in the Render video is a video file that you can see and not hidden and that any reasonable person would expect to be included to do that trick shown.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts
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I honestly think what bothers me more about this is him (Sean) having the audacity to say that you are not allowed to perform this trick anymore if you should by chance sell the DVD. Then again, after the scathing review by Craig and David, and the similar remarks/reviews about this on another thread I seriously doubt that anyone would have the audacity to try and do so! lol
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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Flec Special user UK 585 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-08 13:02, gaffed wrote: THAT I agree with. To think he can enforce such a rule is just plain silly. |
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Astrocity Special user 523 Posts
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The REAL problem with all of this is Sean's attitude regarding what I think are legitimate issues and questions regarding "Render" and his absolute dismal form of "customer service". Here is Sean's response to several Café members who purchased "Render" and were annoyed that the video loops were not included:
Quote:
Ok. Let's back the truck up a minute. I do not know too many magicians who purchase an effect after watching a promo but do not bother to read the product description. There is NO place in Render's product description that states videos are included. I am sorry if you assumed. Myself and several others here on the Café asked Sean, why not just say "Sorry Guys, my bad, I'll make sure the Ad Copy reflects the fact that they the video and apps are NOT included", as David pointed out in the WPR of "Render". Some Café members touted it as false advertising, which may be a bit harsh, misleading definitely. Sean's response to these potential customers: Quote:
False advertising is stating something that is not true about a product or service. Please show me where? Should we sue Apple for their tv commercials where apps are shown running on devices? I didn't receive apps on my purchased iPhone. It's a case per case basis. We've all heard of buyer beware, this just simply means ask before you purchase. Again, I am still making the origami video available. The same way Apple makes apps available. As Stucky pointed out, those commercials are designed to show you what's possible. Render is the same. Now, I have not purchased "Render" but I was VERY interested in it. I have a gig this coming weekend where I will be performing strolling magic for 200 High School Seniors for 4 hours! I saw the video demo for "Render" and I thought that it would be perfect for performing for teenagers. I was on the fence and read up on the threads here on the Café. I jumped into the discussion about "Render" because I was very interested and Scott had made some statements that bothered me and I think kind of typify the attitude of some of the creators & contributors to the magic community. I wanted to get his opinion and answers as well as get more feedback on "Render" before deciding which side of the fence to jump off on. Sean's response to our respectful back and forth here on the Café: Quote:
Hank I think Scott has made the point himself about how he handles business and cares for his customers and potential customers. In a community as specific and small as magic and magicians, I'm always amazed at the way some creators conduct themselves. I guess after watching the WPR on "Render" I just jumped off the fence and landed in a pile of dog crap. Thanks Craig & Dave, and thank you Sean for making me NOT want to purchase effects from you, job well done. I think Craig said it best when he jumped into the discussion: Quote:
Good grief. Thanks Guys, Another great WPR... PS - I received "Rattled" yesterday and the Guys are right, it DOES ROCK!!! Well done Dan Hauss... Hank |
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thorsten dankworth Regular user 101 Posts
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I think Render has a good chance to become the worst product of 2011.
And I´m so happy I didn´t buy it! |
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mayniac Special user 616 Posts
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So now Sean Scott has Modosu (The reverse can crushing effect which Dave and Craig ripped apart), KI, Banderizumu, and now Render with his name on it. Not a great track record...
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MichaelGristMagic New user Newcastle, UK 67 Posts
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I wish Sean Scott would put out something usuable for a change. He really needs to back up his truck and have a rethink about his tricks like...
Magic is propar class like hew!
"Pick a card" "why?" "So I can find it" "why?" "Because I can..." |
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-08 14:39, Flec wrote: Well, to state such a thing on the DVD is audacity; the idea that it could in any way shape or form be enforced is beyond the realm of utter stupidity. This is akin to purchasing a book on magic which states that if you should ever sell the book years later that you can no longer perform any of the tricks you learned from the book. I seriously doubt that there exists little invisible elfin like magic police who are tracking your every movement. Well, except for that cursed one who reported me for performing an effect from “Red Mirror” by Helder Guimaraes, but that was just a warning.....whew!! Quote:
On 2011-06-08 16:44, mayniac wrote: Modosu; I’ll have to look that one up as I must have missed it. Banderizumu?? Just where the hell does he get these names from?
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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lumberjohn Special user Memphis, TN 626 Posts
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As, according to Craig and Dave, Rattled has the potential to be a great utility item, it would be cool for those of us who have watched and enjoyed the WPR to come up with our own effects and routines using it, the same way that Craig has provided for free his own effects and routines using flash paper. Perhaps these could be incorporated into an ebook that could be offered by Craig or Dave for download. It would be a great way to contribute back.
Btw, I have no financial interest in Rattled and don't even own it, though I do plan on picking it up. But since Craig predicts that Rattled routines will soon be common in the magic books of others, why not get a head start and get out there first with a set of WPR watcher routines? |
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TheGreatRaymondo Special user Manchester, England 969 Posts
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98% rating for Rattled on the WPR.
If it's that good why not 100%. Where did it lose those 2 valuable marks and what for? Discuss:
We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know because they have not yet deceived us...
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-10 05:34, TheGreatRaymondo wrote: It lost 2% as Matthew was unavailable to give another superb demonstrating and so lost a few points for that.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Posted: Jun 8, 2011 11:10 am 
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