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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Mr. Prager sent me a copy of this and asked for my input. I advised him that the effect and method were not new and where they had been previously published.
Good thoughts, Bob |
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LLL Inner circle 1574 Posts |
Care to share Bob, so that myself and anybody else interested can purchase the original?
Cheers Andy
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Since Jose has told me that he will follow my advice regarding releasing this there's no need, at the moment, for me to go into the details of the effect.
The only reason I have chosen to post about this right now is because of the reviews that have stated this is something new and original. Jose has a very creative mind and I have no doubt that he was unaware of this effects provenance. I look forward to seeing his future creations. Good thoughts, Bob |
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LLL Inner circle 1574 Posts |
I wasn't looking for details of the effect, just a referrence. But of course, if you feel no need to share that information then I shall respect that.
Andy
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
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Aaron E Special user 756 Posts |
Bob
Can you tell us where the original can be found? |
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blackpine0008 Regular user 126 Posts |
Good decision J.Prager.
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice." Joseph Dunninger
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
It's not that I "don't feel the need to share," as you put it. It's because Jose had decided not to release the effect, and I don't think it would be fair to Jose to discuss what I said to him in confidence.
Good thoughts, Bob |
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Aaron E Special user 756 Posts |
I agree Bob.
But you said it was previously released by someone else. I am looking for THAT release. I am not interested in Jose's work on the peek envelope. Could you give us info on where to find the original creation? |
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Nefesch Special user El Salvador 611 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-05 19:26, Aaron E wrote: I would also like to know where can I find the same creation, cause I read Jose's manuscript and I had NEVER seen that process before. You see Jose's Pdf does NOT give you a new mentalism method, the method is: An envelope that you can see through. And of course we have learn this from Corinda, and we have seen this applied in many effects, etc, like the Khan test, the Inner thought prediction,etc. I have seen many methods out there: from switching security envelopes for regular envelopes, window envelopes, using alcohol, etc. in order to make an envelope becomes transparent. But the Particular method that Jose provides in order to make an ordinary manila envelope becomes transparent and even better: make it look intact and totally examinable (the spectator can handle the envelope at all time), and the handling all together is something that I must admit is at least to my knowledge (and I am an addict to collect mentalism material and study it) is something I had never seen. I may be wrong and that is why I would like to inquire in the expertise of Mr. Cassidy about it. I believe that for sure the way that Jose makes the envelope becomes transparent is UNIQUE, and due of the fact that the envelope is TOTALLY examinable and the spectator can handle it, this makes it improve many versions out there of transparencies on an envelope. I will make a research about it, yet I would love to hear from you Sir. If the particular method that Jose is using (and the handling) has never been published before. Thanks in advance. Nefesch |
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jeremysweiss Special user 742 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-05 19:47, Nefesch wrote: I don't know the method, but are there any such envelopes that are already commercially available that fit the same criteria. I guess that would be an important question. Is there any other existing method of equally good, equally costing, equally good looking, envelopes already in existence?
The Shock Doc
<BR>www.TheShockDocShow.com <BR> <BR> <BR>http://ballycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/ballycast-024-2009-03-21.mp3 <BR> <BR>"....Jeremy Weiss has the greatest card trick of ALL TIME!"--Jamie D. Grant. <BR>Start listening to iTricks 11/12/09 |
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gmeister Inner circle 1588 Posts |
The important thing is whether what Bob told Jose convinced him that his method wasn't unique. If Jose wishes to discuss his method and why he decided against releasing it at this time, then that's his decision. The discussion between Bob and Jose was privileged. The choice to divulge the details, unless other terms were agreed upon, is Jose's.
Let's respect that. |
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Aaron E Special user 756 Posts |
Right. We got it! The conversation that took place with Jose and Bob is not what I or others are asking about. We/I would like to know where the ORIGINAL ENVELOPE PEEK that Jose recreated is found?
Is this wrong to ask? It is obviously NOT Jose's envelope peek, so why keep the original creation that is published, a secret? Is it because Jose WAS going to release this? If that's the case, I was "going" to release 4DT, but I found out Bob Cassidy created it before me! Looks like know one can be told where Bob's creation can be found. Again. I am not asking about Jose's peek envelope nor am I asking about a conversation about it. I am asking about the ORIGINAL. Not sure if I can make it more clear. |
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Harrismatic Elite user Greece 434 Posts |
Having the pleasure to receive a copy of this I must admit that I loved this thing.Despite the above accuses (for which I am surprised) I have to say that
THIS IDEA IS UNIQUE!!!!!!!!! It is obvious that this is not a new concept in mentalism. This does not mean that this is not unique.It may not be innovative as effect but in my opinion as tecnhique it IS innovative. It is like saying that a new forcing technique, or a new peek or a new tnr method or.... can not be innovative or unique because there are already existing ones.In this case the transparency concept exists as idea and works with windows, alchohol etc but you can not say that there is an ORIGINAL version of it. As a result the term "ORIGINAL" has no place here. Regards, Harrismatic |
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Nefesch Special user El Salvador 611 Posts |
So I just had a long conversation with Jose Prager and here is what I was told:
Jose shared with Mr. Cassidy this new peek envelope, and Mr. Cassidy expressed to Jose his Respectable Opinion which in few words go like this: Due that transparencies on envelopes have already been used in mentalism in many ways, Mr. Cassidy invited Jose to think twice if releasing a new way to Create that transparency on an envelope would be justifiable or not. Also Mr. Cassidy was very nice, polite and Professional he did NOT ask Jose not to release his creation, he just invited him to think it twice as transparencies on envelopes have already been used, not with Jose's method, yet transparencies on envelopes have been used. ----------------------- After all that I agree with Mr. Cassidy on the fact that a transparency on an envelope: IS NOTHING NEW! But after I reading Jose's Manuscript and creating some of these by my own, I am still amazed on how INNOCENT they look to the untrained eye, actually even for me who knows what I am looking for: THEY FOOL ME. And: YES! the process to create these envelopes is UNIQUE, and the quality of them is something I had never seen before, They are really high quality props. As Mr. Cassidy said: It is up to Jose if he releases or not. It is my humble opinion that this would be a very welcome and great improvement to mentalism. I hope Jose decides to share it to the comunity. Nefesch |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I mention a very nice high quality envelope in The Beautiful Lie that lets you perform khan envelope style work...nice sturdy paper, a warm/strong yellow colour they are...you can also use a steel grey and a pale blue...
no gimmick/prep needed...just a naturally occurring property of an envelope made by a certain company... EDIT - should say mine was part of a bigger routine, and not just as a method for peeking... the fact that they are coloured, high quality envelopes just added an indirect convincer that everything was kosher... it was my subtleties that I felt actually warrant the inclusion of it at all...not seen J. Prager's...
I've asked to be banned
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magic.mind Loyal user 247 Posts |
So with that argument Bresler´s Switchcraft isn't a good publication ( I love it but is just an example) because in there he teaches a lot of ways to do one old technique.
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ElliottB Inner circle 3250 Posts |
Please leave me out of this.
There are many, many techniques in Switchcraft (and the supplements) that are new. There are also many easier handlings for older technique. And there are a bunch of really good old techniques to top it all off. The same goes for the countless ideas and routines shared in the book. It is true that billet switches, reads, peeks, one-ahead, forces, outs etc. all existed long before my grandparents were born. So, there is not much in the book without some basis in the works of our predecessors. But the same can be said about any modern work on mentalism. |
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts |
Yeah, Switchcraft is really the worst example you could find....
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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Dr. Van Van Mojo Special user 570 Posts |
This should probably be a different thread, but there's a HUGE difference between Switchcraft and a lot of the offerings lately from so many selling their idea of the week. Switchcraft is over 500 pages with tons of routines, techniques and handlings. Very good value even at 2 or 3 times the asking price.
Personally I'm a bit tired of all the one-trick/one idea PDFs being put out constantly by so many, often without being tested for very long in the real world. What ever happened to compiling a book's worth of material, vetting it, testing and using it for more than a few weeks, and putting out something substantial? |
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Nefesch Special user El Salvador 611 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-06 10:34, ElliottB wrote: Absolutely True!!! I agree with you. Quote:
On 2011-09-06 11:20, Dr. Van Van Mojo wrote: Indeed there are many of this type of "one week" material out there, The PDF I was given does not only includes the method to make your envelope, it also include some routines, handling and improving on many plots out there, like: draw duplication, q&a, Bank note, serial number divination and a few other that I don't remember, the material was very complete and I must tell that I am a real world performer, I do my whole living performing mentalism. Nefesch |
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