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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I want to see the manager! » » Penguin Magic Help? or Hurt? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

TheAmbitiousCard
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Eternal Order
Northern California
13121 Posts

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So now that Penguin will be "assisting magicians" Live does this mean when someone wants to know a GREAT spongeball routine...
Is penguin actually going to help or are they going to promote something horrible like Jay Nozbleda's spongeball DVD (produced by penguin) ??

Who are these helpers? Daryl? John Carney? Penn and Teller? Or some Kewl teenagers that like triks and will work for free dvds???

If someone wants the a great shell game DVD... Is penguin going to promote Bob Kohler's fantastic offering or the SFS DVDs or are they going to promote Jay Noblzlelda's awful awful Shell Game DVD (again, produced by penguin).

It's unfortunate that Jay was the magician in both of these that I find so low quality. I don't mean to be hammering on him personally.
But those 2 DVDs (there must be others) are truly awful compared to the best media on the market. Yet jay/penguin had the effrontery to call the spongeball DVD "The Last Word on Spongeballs". Seriously???!!! Hardly a responsible DVD title for something so ... bad.

I'm hoping this doesn't turn this website from "magicians helping magicians" to "penguin helping themselves at the expense of newbie magicians".

I'm concerned for the newer magicians.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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pabloinus
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Inner circle
1412 Posts

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Frank, I see your point but it is also true that when you ask questions here some people (many) will give advise with an agenda behind their "suggestion", either because they are friend or because they have a more subtle interest, and in those advises you don't know their agenda. Newer magicians do not that and could be confuse.
In the case of penguin they are a retailer and as such they have many products and their owns, if they push one of their products you know they are pushing their products and could make your mind.
I had used penguin help live and it was always very good, I never asked "what is the best sponge ball dvd", but I did asked questions about specific products and got good support.
Personally I think it is ok, if you understand the scenario.
Dan Bernier
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Inner circle
Canada
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Quote:
On 2011-10-14 09:52, pabloinus wrote:
I see your point but it is also true that when you ask questions here some people (many) will give advise with an agenda behind their "suggestion", either because they are friend or because they have a more subtle interest, and in those advises you don't know their agenda. Newer magicians do not that and could be confuse.


I'd rather have the opinions of others than from Penquin. That's why I come here. Doesn't Penquin have their own forum? If I have a question about their (Penguin) product I'll go to Penquin, but I don't ever buy from Penquin.

I would have to completely agree with Frank on this. To put it into my words, it seems like a conflict of interrest to me. There is no doubt that Penguin has more than a subtle interrest. Smile

But hey, it's not our site, and we have no say in what happens here. We are just the peons who make this forum what it is today. Without us, the Café is just another forum. Smile
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
pabloinus
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In the way I read it, this is not Penguin getting in the forum to discuss this product, rather a button somewhere in the page in case and individual person wants to ask something to Penguin, you or anybody else are not force to go there.
Also on the conflict of interest, what do you think it is when members of this forum, push their products or some of their friends products in every opportunity they have.
Caveat, Frank is not included in my example, while he sells magic products he does not push his company, at least not with me.

I am a satisfied customer of Penguin and other merchants, so no hidden interest in my reply here
Andrew Zuber
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Manhattan Beach, CA
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I have to agree that many Café members may have their own agenda. There is one member who answers MANY questions by referring to things available "on my site." I'm not saying it's good or bad. I personally find it tiresome but others may find it helpful.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
HerbLarry
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Poof!
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The background is green for a reason.
You know why don't act naive.
hoodrat
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Southern California
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It didn't take long for the negativity against Penguin Magic to rear its head, did it? Geesh.... I wonder how long it will be until the first post appears here that gripes about all the "immature kids" and "David Blaine-wannabe teenagers" that supposedly comprise the bulk of Penguin's subscribers?
Ray Chelt
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Changing the world with my
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Its a help for me.

I'm afraid that despite Steve's slightly more altruistic rationale for the Penguin help thingy, I'm under no illusion that the Café needs to generate money to make it viable. So we get a fairly unintrusive Penguin button, they may get revenue from it, the Café gets benefits and then we see other improvements on the site, maybe even a quick search button.

I really don't know why Steve is shy to say things as they are. I don't have a problem with the Café making money and, as others have pointed put, better an overt Penguin spokesperson than the myriad of unknowns on here talking up their best friends latest piece of tat. And of course once the Café is overtly money making then some of the "you are our guests" spiel that is sometimes arrogantly turned out by Steve will have to be revisited and becomes " you are our customers" which is good news for us.

I certainly don't get the conflict of interest piece. The Penguin button will be visible on threads where plenty of folk will have the opportunity to talk about effects that Penguin don't sell. Its just down to readers to make an intelligent decision.
Randwill
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Quote:
On 2011-10-14 13:52, Ray Chelt wrote:

I really don't know why Steve is shy to say things as they are. I don't have a problem with the Café making money and, as others have pointed put, better an overt Penguin spokesperson than the myriad of unknowns on here talking up their best friends latest piece of tat. And of course once the Café is overtly money making then some of the "you are our guests" spiel that is sometimes arrogantly turned out by Steve will have to be revisited and becomes " you are our customers" which is good news for us.



Actually, as on most commercial websites, we're not the customer, we're the commodity that the owner is selling to advertisers.
TheAmbitiousCard
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Eternal Order
Northern California
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If the idea makes money for the Café, that's great as long as the info given is ligit. Having a "help me" link puts penquin in a position of apparent authority and knowledge more than just some idiot spewing at the mouth about his "favorite of all" die box, when in fact, it's the only die box he's ever seen, and actually hasn't performed with any.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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Ray Chelt
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Changing the world with my
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Quote:
On 2011-10-14 16:57, Randwill wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-10-14 13:52, Ray Chelt wrote:

I really don't know why Steve is shy to say things as they are. I don't have a problem with the Café making money and, as others have pointed put, better an overt Penguin spokesperson than the myriad of unknowns on here talking up their best friends latest piece of tat. And of course once the Café is overtly money making then some of the "you are our guests" spiel that is sometimes arrogantly turned out by Steve will have to be revisited and becomes " you are our customers" which is good news for us.



Actually, as on most commercial websites, we're not the customer, we're the commodity that the owner is selling to advertisers.


True enough !!
Steve Brooks
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Manager
Northern California - United States
4589 Posts

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Folks I plainly stated in my original post and private message that this was an experiment of sorts taking place over the next twelve months. Not only that, but the HELP icon is only visible in a few select forums - NOT the entire Café. As such, we'll see how it goes. Smile

That said, If you don't need any support from a dealer - simply don't push the button!...how hard is that? Geez...

Let's get on with more important matters, like maybe performing magic? Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
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