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Lachlan Davis New user 22 Posts |
So I'm thinking of investing In a reel to do silk through mic stand.
I found a guy who sells the Kirkendall reels for $76 (AU) and shipping is cheap, it will cost me $81 all up, a bargain I think. He says the reels are made my George's friend who inherited the business and that they are less noisy. However I noticed that a new reel just came on the market, the Tango Ultimate Reel, which I will be able to get for about $100. It looks like shops are out of stock at the moment and more will come in February. Has anyone had any experience with the Tango Ultimate Reels? Are they good, I'm looking for some help, as Kirkendall is an infamous name when it comes to reels, but are these newer reels better? |
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IDOTRIX Elite user Darien,il 467 Posts |
Tango just started shipping this week. give him a couple weeks and look for a review in Latest and Greatest
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
What do you mean by "Better", all reels do the same thing. They retract a line. That is all they do. There is no "better", to me. I have owned many of the famous names in reels, they all do the same thing. I consider the solid brass, no longer available Paul Diamond to be the best.
It is all a matter of opinion. The brand name will not make you do the effects any "better" at all. It is how you handle the reel and how you care for it to keep it working properly. I would never by something that was made by a company with Tango's reputation thus far. Just buy a $10 reel and get on with performing the effects with it. That is my advice. |
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Damian Veteran user 363 Posts |
Lachlan,
I bought a used Kirkendale here, on the forum, this past summer. I used it to perform silk thru coffee mug handle at my summer camp. Was very pleased with it. Damian |
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Lachlan Davis New user 22 Posts |
Wmhegbli, I'm not an idiot.
I actually own two $10 reels which I use with serpentine silk, they are fine for that effect but there's no way my cheap reels can do silk through mic stand. They are simply not fast enough. It's not about the brand name, it's about the quality of the reel, which CAN differ. Are the reels quiet? fast? Reliable? those are legitimate things which need to be taken into account. Thanks guys, I'll wait for the review on the Tango Ultimate Reel. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Oh, My, here we go again! I will say again, it has nothing to do with the speed of a reel, it has to do with the handling. A Kirkendall will not be any faster then your current reels.
I don't know why you made the idiot comment. Don't be so hard on yourself. Of course if you want to spend your money that is your business, but you are the one that posted the question. Do what you want, you can learn the hard way if you desire. |
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Lachlan Davis New user 22 Posts |
Not having a go at you, legit question here: why do so many people bang on about kirkendall reels being so fast and quiet if they aren't any better than a 10 dollar reel from ebay?
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Damian Veteran user 363 Posts |
What's a matter, wmhegbli? You only get coal in your stocking, this morning?
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
I have performed the Serpent Silk and Silk thru Microphone stand before you were born. I think I know what I am speaking of when it comes to reels. Believe me or not, it is your decision.
------------------------------------------ Damian, no my Christmas is very nice. To bad you have nothing to offer for advice. Why are you here, nothing to do better then to troll. |
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Lachlan Davis New user 22 Posts |
I asked a legitimate question. If what you are saying is true, then in your opinion, why is that so many people bang on about how good and fast and quiet the kirkendall reel is if it is not better than a cheap one?
I do believe you when you say it's more about the handling, I've just read so much harping on about how you need a good quality reel, if that's not the case then would you mind sharing some performance tips? If not here then over PM? |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
To answer your question, Kirkendall made several improvements to the old P&L reel which was considered the standard in the business. When they stopped making them, guys started hoarding and being very careful with their reels. George took that basic design and made a very minor but important technical improvements that made it more durable and easier to repair. In fact, George told you how to repair the reel yourself in his directions.
I cannot vouch for the Paul Diamond reel. The ones I have worked on were harder to repair and seem quite a bit larger than the Kirkendall. I know many guys that liked them and Paul could sure demo the reel wonderfully. But it was not up to par with the Kirkendall in my opinion. You cannot just buy any old reel and have it be quiet, fast and durable. Several guys have tried to knock off the Kirkendall but they just could not do it. You have to put in the right quality of materials to make a good reel. A corner cut here and there severely affects the reel quality and functionality. I think the Kirkendall will do the job for you. Why spend more than is needed to do the effect? Tango at this point is an unproven reel. They may be fine but Kirkendall reels have been made and used the world over since the 1980's. As for controlling the end on the serpetine silk, use your fingers to hold the thread. The brake will work but it harder to control the thread while in the finger palm position. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Ron Reid Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 2732 Posts |
Good Morning, Lachlan:
Richard has given real helpful advice. Here's what I can add to it: I have bought a couple Kirkendall reels made by George Kirkendall and they were excellent, but that was 25 years ago. I haven't heard anything about the quality of the newer ones. I believe Owen Magic Supreme still sells one. I bought theirs and it was every bit as good as the Kirkendall and about the same price, but that was years ago. I'm pretty sure Tango has turned around their reputation in a big way. I bought their Copper/Silver/Brass set and it was outstanding workmanship. I bought it after reading many rave reviews here at the Café. I would expect their reel to be excellent! Concerning Paul Diamond reels, I've never owned one because the casing was permanently closed, and you had to send it back to Paul if the line ever broke. At least that's the way it used to be. His reel does have a very good reputation, though. Your questions are completely on-target and relevant - speed and reliability and quietness have everything to do with a reel. If I were in your position, I'd check with Owen first, so see if they still sell their reel. I hope this helps you, Ron |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Just to clarify, Paul Diamond reels were not permanently sealed. They could be fixed by yourself, but as most magicians do not trust themselves, Paul Diamond offered to fix them as well.
The main problem with the Kirkendall reel currently being offered, is that you have to re-string it when you get it with 3 pound clear fishing line. It come with the very old black thread from the old days. Not that it does not work with that, but most magicians are not confident using black thread. |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
I would never put the clear fishing line in a reel. You have doctor the line to keep it from shining. But that is me again.
Bill, did the link I give you for the thread on reels clear things up for you on a source? I, also, do not know about the quality of the new Kirkendall reels. I know George had a lot of the parts made when he passed. Whether these are those parts or this fellow knows how to assemble them is another matter. I do know that if you have trouble with the reel, Stevens would make it right. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Lachlan Davis New user 22 Posts |
Thanks guys that's very helpful.
Richard, The guy selling the kirkendall reels says they are made by George's friend who inherited the business. I'm not sure how true that is. wmhegbli, id still be interested if you have any performance tips with doing the trick with a normal reel. My main problem is that when I pull it out, it can sometimes be a bit slow retracting, and the audience would see the method. |
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
I had a Paul Diamond reel, a long time ago. The line wasn't the problem - the spring kept breaking at the center. It simply wasn't reliable enough to use in a performance. The best I've ever used was a cheap S.S. Adams plastic reel.
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1849 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-26 11:32, hugmagic wrote: I have one I bought from Steven's and it works great. David |
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Andre Hagen Inner circle 1432 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-25 10:15, IDOTRIX wrote: Check "Tango Ultimate Reel" on the Latest and Greatest Forum. Lots of info there. Andre P.S. Happy New Year!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein
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Ekuth Inner circle Floating above my 1538 Posts |
Why on earth would someone be afraid of using black thread in a reel instead of monofilament? The reflections off the monofilament make it a no brainer for me...
Black or a line the same color as the silk/ribbon you're using, especially for silk through mic. Would hold true for serpentine silk as well, I would think. Although the argument could be made (as in TT's) that with proper handling, line color shouldn't matter. As to reels, I've had very good success with a reel I modified (ie: silenced and lubricated properly, replaced cable with line) from Harbor Freight... which pulls like lightning (I actually had to pad my attachment point with felt because I was getting snapback bruises- not pleasant on the old fingertips.) and, while a tad on the larger size for palming, makes for a dandy DIY reel at a low cost.
"All you need is in Fitzkee."
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Rainboguy Inner circle 1915 Posts |
I've gone through 2 Kirkandall reels and a Paul Diamond Reel. Alan Munro was right about the Paul Diamond Reel......unlike the Kirkandall reels it wasn't well-made. Both my Kirkindall reels went south when the string broke, and as a result the innards went haywire...tried repairing them but couldn't.
I'm ordering the New Tango Reel today and will report on it after I've had a chance to use it. I played with one a few weeks ago and it was VERY nice. I wish I still had my Kantner's Windlass.....now THAT was one Hell of a workhorse stage reel! |
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