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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 1:34pm
I came across these 2" Billiard Balls made in China, they are soft, so they will not shoot from between the fingers as a firmer Billiard Ball has a tendency to do. So they could be compared to Sponge Ball - Billiard Balls in a way. The price is beyond belief, even with international postage being sent 1st Class mail. I guess that is due to the lightness of the balls.
I went ahead and ordered a set, just to see if they are good looking as the promo pictures. They do not have any available in 1-3/4" size, but I did find them available in 1-1/2" size. Just like most things today, everything but what you think will work best for you.
Here is the posting:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-Multiplying-Balls-Billiard-Stage-Magic-Trick-Manipulation-Red-Soft-Plastic-/220867872553?pt=UK_Collectables_MagicTricks_RL&hash=item336cc04729
Anyone have any experience with these Soft Billiard Balls from China?
Click here to view attached image.
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 1:35pm
Here is an example of their squeezability?
Click here to view attached image.
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jimhlou
Inner circle
2898 Posts
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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 2:41pm
Those look pretty good. The "squeezability" may make them very easy to work with. What did this cost in US dollars?
Please let us know what you think of them when you get them.
Thanks,
Jim
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 2:48pm
With postage $13.00, not bad if the shell is firm feeling.
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Michael Baker
Inner circle
Near a river in the Midwest
8463 Posts
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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 2:51pm
Nice find. It looks like you might have to wait a bit for them because of their holiday, but the price is hard to beat. Can't wait to hear what you think of them.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 2:56pm
Quote:
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On 2012-01-20 14:51, Michael Baker wrote:
Nice find. It looks like you might have to wait a bit for them because of their holiday, but the price is hard to beat. Can't wait to hear what you think of them.
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No, I just made their holiday date.
They were mailed out today, or yesterday, which is today here but tommorrow there. Isn't time travel fun? These balls are really magic being able to move from one day to the same day, the next day. LOL
So I should have them in a week or so, I guess. They even sent them 1st class mail.
I will review them when they arrive, I am interested if they will work well, as well.
Wouldn't you know it they are only available in red, but the smaller size is available in red and white. That I found with a different dealer in China on the same web site referenced above.
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jay leslie
V.I.P.
southern california
6324 Posts
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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 7:13pm
I have a few balls like that, (different colors) which I got from the petstore. They have a few ribbons coming out of them (which can be removed) but they look and squeeze just like the photo.
http://www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com our 75th year
The one and only www.miraclemagiccompany.com/
And you know what they say - if it works... it's a Miracle!
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Jan 21, 2012 10:40am
These come with 2 shells and 4 balls. If they work out, I was thinking of getting a 2nd set and make a Flash 4 set out of them.
Yes, I see the seams on the balls, and that 1st one in the photo is a shell, very slightly off color in the photo anyway.
I would say if the squeezability makes them impossible to drop or be knocked out from between the fingers, then it is money well spent.
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Michael Baker
Inner circle
Near a river in the Midwest
8463 Posts
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Posted: Jan 21, 2012 11:48am
Quote:
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On 2012-01-21 10:40, wmhegbli wrote:
... or be knocked out from between the fingers...
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Sound like you work for a rough crowd! 
~michael baker
The Magic Company
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mtpascoe
Inner circle
1698 Posts
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Posted: Jan 21, 2012 6:25pm
Jeff McBride had me practice with these. The shell is difficult to work with at first. Because it's soft one has a tendacy to squeeze too hard when the ball comes out of it. Other than that, it's not too bad.
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Suren
Veteran user
Armenia
305 Posts
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Posted: Jan 22, 2012 12:02pm
I believe friend of mine had those.They handled very well and felt very comfortable. Even though I am not 100% sure that this is it. If someones looking for good and cheap balls made from rubber I know where to get them, you can PM me.
Magically,
-Sur.
www.facebook.com/CardistSuren
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Peter Pitchford
Veteran user
Philly
368 Posts
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Posted: Jan 22, 2012 9:53pm
I have a set of these in 2" They are great. I really like them. I think you will too. They are unique to anything I have used before. The shells are decent also. Good luck.
www.magicbymanipulation.com
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Jan 22, 2012 9:54pm
Quote:
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On 2012-01-22 21:53, Peter Pitchford wrote:
I have a set of these in 2" They are great. I really like them. I think you will too. They are unique to anything I have used before. The shells are decent also. Good luck.
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That is great to hear!
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JamesinLA
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3209 Posts
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Posted: Jan 23, 2012 10:07pm
I assume they bounce?
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Jan 23, 2012 10:20pm
Quote:
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On 2012-01-23 22:07, JamesinLA wrote:
I assume they bounce?
Jim
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Why? I don't bounce my Billiard Balls. Wood Billiard Balls as well as real Billiard Balls don't bounce either.
I have not received my set yet, but I will test them just for you, Jim, to see if they bounce. Although, I have never read a routine where the balls are bounced. I do know Tim Wright has a unique returning ball bounce in his act that gets good reaction from the audience.
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Pete Biro
V.I.P.
17755 Posts
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Posted: Jan 24, 2012 12:28am
I see on their web site a ripoff of Porper's folding key in bottle, and card clip .... wonder what others they KO'd?
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
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Anatole
Special user
927 Posts
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Posted: Jan 24, 2012 12:29am
As I recall, Greg Frewin has a visual and extremely startling sequence in his dove act when he bounces a ball on the floor and it turns into a dove on the rebound. (Actually, it might be two balls that bounce and turn into two doves. I haven't seen it in a long time. It's not part of a multiplying ball routine, but it _is_ very magical looking.)
Since most "billiard balls" used by magicians are usually solid colored balls without the numbers or stripes we would see in a game of billiards, I don't think the audience really cares whether the balls are wood, rubber or silicon. Most people in the audience are probably more familiar with solid colored high-bounce silicon "superballs" than they are with "billiard balls" anyway. You don't often see magicians producing wooden balls with numbers and stripes on them, so calling them "billiard balls" doesn't really seem to make sense, especially when most multiplying balls are not the size of regulation billiard balls. I did a multiplying ball routine with white 2" Fakini balls and I heard someone in the audience call them eggs, so I don't think it really matters what we as magicians think the balls represent.
To be an extreme devil's advocate, one might posit that a magician could make even a wooden ball bounce by using his magic powers. Like the gag of throwing a handkerchief down and making it bounce. Handkerchiefs are made of fabric and shouldn't bounce either, but it's a startling and comic effect to see one do that.
Hats don't bounce either--but there's an extremely funny bit with a bouncing hat toward the end of this classic "I Love Lucy" ep in which Lucy is impersonating Harpo Marx. Take a look at it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApYVbEAPSTo
I've always thought that a lot could be learned about presenting entertaining manipulative magic by watching films of great silent comedy film stars like Charlie Chaplin, or later comic actors like Laurel and Hardy.
----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Posted: Jan 24, 2012 12:55am
Here's a great videoclip (after the commercial message) of Greg Frewin's act including the bouncing balls to doves:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnbn8j_dove-magic-greg-frewin_creation
The balls to dove effect occurs at about 4:00 into the clip. You'll notice that Greg does some straight juggling moves with the balls prior to changing them to doves. I think a magician who also does some juggling is as acceptable/legitimate as a dancer who also does some singing (e.g. Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, Gene Kelly). I know that a lot of "theorists" condemn overt displays of "juggling." But I still think many audiences expect that magicians who do card tricks should be able to handle them with consummate dexterity.
----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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JamesinLA
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3209 Posts
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Posted: Jan 24, 2012 1:06am
Thanks, Bill. I do bounce my BB in my routine.
Regarding how the audience perceives magician's BB's, per Levent's BB essays in his dvd set, the audiences of old thought that the old BBs were snooker balls, which is a billiard type game whose balls are solid colored.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Pop Haydn
Inner circle
Los Angeles
1035 Posts
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Posted: Jan 24, 2012 2:17am
Quote:
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On 2012-01-24 00:29, Anatole wrote:
As I recall, Greg Frewin has a visual and extremely startling sequence in his dove act when he bounces a ball on the floor and it turns into a dove on the rebound. (Actually, it might be two balls that bounce and turn into two doves. I haven't seen it in a long time. It's not part of a multiplying ball routine, but it _is_ very magical looking.)
Since most "billiard balls" used by magicians are usually solid colored balls without the numbers or stripes we would see in a game of billiards, I don't think the audience really cares whether the balls are wood, rubber or silicon. Most people in the audience are probably more familiar with solid colored high-bounce silicon "superballs" than they are with "billiard balls" anyway. You don't often see magicians producing wooden balls with numbers and stripes on them, so calling them "billiard balls" doesn't really seem to make sense, especially when most multiplying balls are not the size of regulation billiard balls. I did a multiplying ball routine with white 2" Fakini balls and I heard someone in the audience call them eggs, so I don't think it really matters what we as magicians think the balls represent.
To be an extreme devil's advocate, one might posit that a magician could make even a wooden ball bounce by using his magic powers. Like the gag of throwing a handkerchief down and making it bounce. Handkerchiefs are made of fabric and shouldn't bounce either, but it's a startling and comic effect to see one do that.
Hats don't bounce either--but there's an extremely funny bit with a bouncing hat toward the end of this classic "I Love Lucy" ep in which Lucy is impersonating Harpo Marx. Take a look at it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApYVbEAPSTo
I've always thought that a lot could be learned about presenting entertaining manipulative magic by watching films of great silent comedy film stars like Charlie Chaplin, or later comic actors like Laurel and Hardy.
----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
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From Wikipedia:
Historically, the umbrella term was billiards.
While that familiar name is still employed by some as a generic label for all such games, the word's usage has splintered into more exclusive competing meanings in various parts of the world.
For example, in British and Australian English, "billiards" usually refers exclusively to the game of English billiards, while in American and Canadian English it is sometimes used to refer to a particular game or class of games, or to all cue games in general, depending upon dialect and context.
********************************
English Billiards, including Snooker, are games played with solid colored balls.
In my opinion the bounce is the convincer that the balls are solid. It replaces the lovely "click" that two solid balls can make. The advantage of the wood or resin balls is that the click can be made with the shell over one of the balls.
It doesn't matter what the material of the balls is, as long as the audience safely assumes they are solid.
In most respects, I think the silicone ball and shell, because of the bounce, and because the idea of a half rubber ball or a shell made out of silicone would not bounce and seems so improbable structurally. Wood or resin might be hollowed out to make a shell, but a rubber ball?
Although these balls don't bounce, it is only necessary to have one silicone ball, perhaps a different color, introduced into the routine, to bounce to convince that all the others are also solid and bouncy.
--Pop Haydn
The Sphere of Destiny
Pop's Soapbox
Pop Haydn in the 21st Century
Los Angeles magician
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Jan 24, 2012 10:16am
What a whirlwind of controversy over whether balls bounce. I see many balls bounce if thrown hard enough against a solid surface, but I was referring to bounce in the traditional sense. Drop a the ball with only gravity to draw the ball toward the ground and the bounce would be hard to measure with wood and regulation Billiard Balls.
Greg Frewin used what looked like Tennis Balls, and when I seen his act, he only juggled them without using any of the traditional magician Billiard Ball moves. Tennis Balls are made to bounce as in the game of Tennis. That was a real stretch to being Billiard Balls manipulation in my opinion.
The balls mentioned above, do come with some hard shells, so knocking them together would create a solid sound. As for the "ringing in a ringer ball", well here we have to find a matching ball, and that has always been a problem in magic. Manufacturers of magic props, for some reason, don't like to make matching items.
I was thinking if the hard shells were to soft, it might not be a bad idea to have some wood shells custom made for the balls. This would make it possible to have a firm grip and as mentioned create a sound when knocked together. Again, though, color matching would be a challenge.
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2012 4:22pm
I received the Billiard Ball set today, they are satisfactory looking, they have nice sheen to them as in the photos. They are a soft sponge type of material and compress very easily, but not to easily. There is a little flash as we use to call from the mold process, but this is easily removed. There is a definite seam, and maybe this can be trimmed with an Exact-o Knife. It is nice bright red color and almost a perfect match for the shell.
The shell is very strong, I have had those other junk silicon balls, and the shells would compress with very little pressure. Not these you can squeeze them and they hold their shape. The shells also fit snug on the balls, so you can do the ball half way through the silk effect, and even throw them or juggle them without worry of the shell coming off. As there are 2 shells, they can be on 2 balls and knocked together, making a nice solid sound if you wish.
I have dry hands and had no problem with the balls moving between each finger of the hand, as in rolling the balls. They are very comfortable to work with and feel nice between the fingers and do not force the fingers at all. The balls rolls out of the shell easily, as it will not lodge unless you force the ball farther into the shell. Sort of a natural break.
The shells are very thin and only look like a seam line from a short distance. I actually picked up the wrong ball without a shell on it, it is that convincing. Very happy with the shell, as I was afraid it was soft and not be able to keep it shape. That is not the case.
The balls do not have a cling feature, but they work like they do. Maybe it is because of the compressibility or the dull feeling material.
Anyway, I am very happy with these Billiard Balls and will be ordering more to make a complete set of 8 balls. I can work with the 2" size with ease and it will look good to the audience as well.
I would say these balls should come out of a cloth Billiard Ball holder very easily, as the smooth surface will assist in this. These as mentioned do not have a sticky feeling and will not grab the material.
Only drawback is that I cannot find them in another color for a color change.
I would say if you are struggling with solid 2" balls and are feeling like you are fighting a losing battle to control them, then get a set of these Billiard Balls. You will be able to concentrate on getting a routine down, instead of worrying about dropping the balls or making your fingers spread farther.
Best $13.00 investment for 2012 I have made in magic. Are they perfectly made, no, do they have Minute flaws, yes. Will I use them, yes.
The package took 13 days to come from China, for some reason it entered the country from New York instead of San Francisco. Yes, the package had tracking and it was helpful for piece of mind.
Oh! and Jim, I throw them on the kitchen floor and they only bounced about 30 inches high. I dropped them on the floor from 4.5' and they only bounced a few inches from the floor.
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JamesinLA
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3209 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2012 1:01pm
I am very interested in the fact that they may be squeezable out of a Downs bag. Also, what about the sound when you hit them together? Does rubber make any loud sound? Thanks.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2012 3:39pm
Hi JIm, they sound like wood balls hitting together the shells on the balls. Without the shells the do not make any sound. When I bounced them of course it was only a quiet thud sound.
If nothing else they are get exercise squeeze balls to strengthen your hand grip.
As with everything, these have plus and minuses about them.
Neil Foster liked to steal his balls from a container or top hat, his steal method was to place the balls on long hat pins, These were shoved from the outside near the brim so they would hang down on the inside with the a ball stuck on the pin.
I would hate to put needle holes in a ball that I paid a hundred dollars for, but at this price, I have no problem sticking with a needle/pin.
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Amazing Binky
Regular user
Lancaster,OH
157 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2012 3:58pm
I have never associated the production of balls between fingers as "Billiard Balls". The only people who know them as such are magicians. So to the audience they are simply multiplying balls. Therefore, I see no reason why one shouldn't consider bouncing them since most balls bounce.
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2012 5:27pm
Quote:
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On 2012-02-03 15:58, Amazing Binky wrote:
I have never associated the production of balls between fingers as "Billiard Balls". The only people who know them as such are magicians. So to the audience they are simply multiplying balls. Therefore, I see no reason why one shouldn't consider bouncing them since most balls bounce.
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Binky, this is a magic and magicians discussion site. Are you sure you belong here? Every Art and business have their own language they use in that art or business. Magic is no exception. That language usually referred to as "Jargon" is what real magicians use when talking among themselves. This makes it easier for everyone to understand each other and what they are saying.
Multiplying Billiard Balls refers to a special set of balls and how they are handled and performed in routine. Multiplying Balls could mean anything including close-up magic. There are many Multiplying Ball effects, but when discussing the Multiplying Billiard Balls, it only means a special set of balls and the handling that go with that effect.
Then there is the manufacturer, he can name his product anything he wishes, In this case and forum of discussion, that is what the manufacturer has done, he named his trick or set of balls, Pro Multiplying Billiard Balls. Again, that is what this forum is discussing.
So before you make any further embarrassing statements, you might want to educate yourself and read the forum before posting outrageous statements that are totally wrong.
As far as the bouncing comment, they also sell Multiplying Golf Balls, and as anyone knows, Golf Balls bounce. Many performers that use this product do bounce them.
As with many a magic product, the reference to Billiard Balls is that they are to be like the "real" item, thus the name. These usually consist of other materials then the real item, to make it easier for the magician to pull off his manipulation routine.
There is nothing written in stone that a real Billiard Ball cannot be brought into play if the performer wishes.
If you are going to comment on things you know nothing about, please educate yourself, we would not want to confuse those that are trying to learn.
Now, put the Binky back in your mouth and toddle off, thanks.
Posted: Feb 3, 2012 7:40pm
The more I work with these balls the more I like them. I forgot to mention that they are very light, I find this an additional advantage, not a disadvantage.
Also like any manufactured plastic shell, it does brighten up if a light source is behind you. So if you intend to perform with a light source in back of you, on stage or outside, then possibly painting the inside of the shell black will stop this. The alternative is of course to perform all your moves with the shell in front of the body as in a more surrounded performing situation.
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Amazing Binky
Regular user
Lancaster,OH
157 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2012 8:30pm
I guess what I was trying to say is that unless the magician says something like, "And now.. the multiplying billiard balls" the audience has no reason to assume that a 2" ball that appears is a "billiard". Therefore, the audience (unaware of your "jargon") would be fine if your ball could bounce. My impression was that you were stating earlier that no (jargon) billiard ball should ever bounce in any performance because(actual) billiards don't bounce. But unless your entire audience consists of jargon-friendly magicians, there is no reason that the balls can't bounce (in the mind of the average audience who is unaware of your jargon). Another example would be a "silk" routine. Your un-jargoned audience does not use "SILK" as everyday slang so it could be a "scarf", "hanky", or "dew rag" to them for all they know.
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JamesinLA
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3209 Posts
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Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:09am
I believe the name "Billiard Balls" come from that the original audiences who saw the trick DID perceive them as billiard balls, snooker balls to be specific.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Amazing Binky
Regular user
Lancaster,OH
157 Posts
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Posted: Feb 4, 2012 6:39pm
I'm sure, but today's audience would not have the same perception which was the point I was trying to convey.
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12893 Posts
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Posted: Feb 4, 2012 7:06pm
Quote:
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On 2012-02-04 18:39, Amazing Binky wrote:
I'm sure, but today's audience would not have the same perception which was the point I was trying to convey.
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Listen Binky, we are not discussing anything about how the audience perceives a magic prop. What are you talking about. It is like you don't understand English. You don't acknowledge what has been enlighten to your brain at all.
We don't care what the audience thinks the props are, we perform with tools we have. We only care if the audience is entertained by our demonstrations of magical powers. It the audience thinks it is only a ball that is fine. If they have never seen a ball in their life, then they may be more interested to watch the demonstration of the feats.
Now maybe you have never been to Billiard Room, but they are all over the United States. Why don't you leave your home and open yourself up to the world. That way you won't take forums off topic that have nothing to do with what you don't understand about the art of magic.
As far as your example goes, every woman in the world knows what silk fabric is, it is their nature to enjoy silk on there bodies. Your example does not hold up as usual.
If you truly do not understand, go to a topic that discusses general topics on magic, and the differences in a group of artist talking and the outside world. Being a minister, from your web site, I think you would understand this concept. I am sure you don't tell your members, that you have to come up with a way to get money out of their pockets this week. No you call it tides, and offerings, and anything but what it is "CASH".
I see you are not even a magician, and that is what bothers me the most, some clown coming on here and tries to destroy topics. Why don't you take some of that cash and buy a book and read it. You might learn something. Start with "Magic and Showmanship" by Henning Nelms, and then the Tarbell Course, study the introduction chapters at the front of each book.
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Anatole
Special user
927 Posts
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Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:53pm
If I were working in a platform situation where the audience could clearly see the dimples on the golf balls and recognize them as golf balls, I would never bounce the Fakini golf balls. In addition to the discrepancy in the height of the bounce, there would be the discrepancy of the noise difference between the sound a genuine golf ball would make hitting a hard floor like the wooden floor of a platform or stage and the sound a Fakini golf ball would make hitting it. Anyone who ever held a golf ball much less played the game would immediately realize that a golf ball that bounces like a rubber ball when it is thrown to the floor is an anomaly. Also, Fakini balls bounce more like Superballs than the way even "non-super" traditional rubber balls bounce.
When I was a teenager in the 1960's, I once bounced an Ireland golf ball in a performance for the teen magic club that met in Earl Edwards's Magic Shop in Norfolk. I thought it was a neat move because the audience's eyes following the bouncing ball provided misdirection while I made a st**l of another ball. This was in the back room of the shop on a small stage complete with curtains, battens, sound system and lights. My mentor--Earl Edwards--let me know in no uncertain terms that I shouldn't have bounced the ball. When he explained why, I acknowledged my error and dropped the bouncing move immediately.
To quote Ian Malcolm's comment to John Hammond in "Jurassic Park": "Just because you could, doesn't mean you should." (I am to a certain extent happy, though, that John Hammond did not totally agree with Malcolm's reasoning.)
----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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