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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts 
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On 2012-03-08 00:57, Tony Iacoviello wrote: 100% with Tony on this... by the way, I know of a doctor who slept with a couple of his patients... so therefore all doctors do exactly the same...
I've asked to be banned
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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts
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On 2012-03-08 00:57, Tony Iacoviello wrote: Spot on Tony! |
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Mind Guerrilla Inner circle Queens, NY 2670 Posts
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On 2012-03-08 04:44, David Numen wrote: Exactly! And just because Paul Zenon never explicitly says he's referring to ALL psychics, we know that's what he was THINKING. I believe that's called "being psychic." Check and mate, Mr. Zenon. Quote:
I just think there are bigger issues. I am struck by a couple of beer commercials on TV that suggest drinking their product is an action that can only result in instant parties and goodtimes. Deodarant adverts that suggest using their product will make people irrestibly attractive to the opposite sex. Politicians sending citizens to war for dubious reasons. Banks swallowing money left right and centre. Fighting against such things - if people feel the need to fight - would be noble and worthwhile. Spot on! It's sad we live in a world where people are so gullible. It's doubly sad that some feel the only way to enlighten the public is to "inform them with the truth."  The smoking gun here is that Mr. Zenon has chosen only to expose fakes in a field he's familiar with. Very suspicious. As is his claim that he doesn't make any money from being a skeptic. To this, I can only say, "Liar!"
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Suggesting psychics are all fakes always comes across as less than noble and more about self-promotion. Hey, we all need self-promotion so nothing against that per se I just feel this particular route is the lowest in our art. I couldn't agree more. Trying to educate people is much lower than, say, telling a widow you're in contact with her dead poodle. I have three words for Mr. Zenon: HOW DARE YOU. The next thing you know, Mr. Z will be saying (explicitly or implicitly) that all psychic surgeons are frauds just because SOME of them may have been exposed for using trickery on occasion. I may be expensive but when I perform psychic surgery, I give my clients something that no skeptic can. I give them HOPE. Who can put a price on that? And who the hell does Paul Zenon or anyone else think they are that they can judge me? |
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solarzar Regular user Solarzar 109 Posts
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On 2012-03-08 00:57, Tony Iacoviello wrote: Clear, concise and on point. Thank you Tony for expressing this so well. Frauds choose an specialty to use for their fraud, the specialty does not make a fraud. Like you, Tony, I read palms and tarot. I also do numeroloty and astrology. I've never taken advantage of a person, mislead someone on a health or financial transaction, or directed anyone to give me their last dollar to clear away the evil surrounding their money. None of the readers/psychics that I've worked with would do that either. But the frauds do exist, they are not just not the norm they are the exception. Just my thoughts, Solarzar |
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts
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OK I do not know if it was I or another post that ruffled the feathers here, but let me attempt to clarify my earlier statement. As a performer or practitioner of the mystery arts we operate in the grey, we all have different views & value systems of what fits us and is appropriate to present. We all have various views of what is legitimate and what is fraud, so working in this field we must identify that we will run into those that we do not agree with. I am a performing mentalist, do I believe anyone can read my mind or anyone else's(no way), do I believe a tarot is going to allow you to give me anything other than an entertaining reading (also no way)& MG sorry I will decry your psychic healing if all your selling is hope if that is the case then place yourself along side the Benny Hinns of the world.You see there will always be skeptics and nay sayers in this world. PZ has the right to speak his mind if it is for nothing more than his own profit so be it as much as anyone here has the right to speak against my views and points.
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts
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What gets me and mayhap for all time will are the skeptics who will not self educate.
They close the door to consideration of topics they think they understand. But I see that as a benifit to performers such as myself and see no reason to not let them be as they are. Jim H.o.A-X Quote:
On 2012-03-08 12:54, tboehnlein wrote: So how do people respond to what you do?
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts
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Good ? Jim. They respond in various manners some with applause. Some with stunned silence, some with laughter, some with emotion and some with disdain.
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18036 Posts
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Debunking the debunkers has really caught on. Their straw men and dogmatic close mindedness has made their viewpoint transparent. I'm glad the tide has turned.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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The great Gumbini Inner circle 3062 Posts
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Palm Reading is real. Tarot cards are real. Magic is real. Mentalism is real. Life? Just an illusion! Be right back---E.T. just knocked probably needs my phone again.......
Good magic to all, Eric |
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts
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"Debunking the debunkers has really caught on. Their straw men and dogmatic close mindedness has made their viewpoint transparent. I'm glad the tide has turned."
You really believe this? |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18036 Posts
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100%. PSEUDO-SKEPTICS have bilked close minded followers out of 10's of millions In donations to Fake Skeptic Groups. The coin has two side.. Fate Magazine exposed the skeptics back in the 80's... They play the same game now.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts
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I'm probably going to regret this, but what the heck is a pseudo-sceptic when it's at home? Is it just a lazy term of abuse or is there a real definition?
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Mind Guerrilla Inner circle Queens, NY 2670 Posts
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On 2012-03-08 12:54, tboehnlein wrote: I don't only sell hope. I also sell Miracle Salve and slivers of wood from the "true" cross. I'll take your remark as a compliment. I always liked the part where Benny would hit the little old bald man on the head and also those chase scenes where everyone would run around real fast to that catchy music. |
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Simon (Ted) Edwards Inner circle London 1528 Posts
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On 2012-03-09 12:24, Jon_Thompson wrote: My guess is that it's someone who is either not sceptical or who is but doesn't care much about it. My understanding is that these people go around somehow scamming real sceptics. It's all very complicated and verging on the conspiracy theory, if you ask me. T. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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A true skeptic is skeptical of everything, including his own skepticism. A pseudo-skeptic is selectively skeptical and accepts his own preconceptions as fact.
I am skeptical of my own definition, so don't read too much into it. |
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Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts
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On 2012-03-09 13:15, mastermindreader wrote: If you're right, though, I think your definition would it sit comfortably between full scepticism and full belief. Posted: Mar 10, 2012 5:08am To say nothing of crypto-scepticism! |
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Mind Guerrilla Inner circle Queens, NY 2670 Posts
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Think of it this way:
If a skeptic says, "I'm a skeptic," it means he's really NOT a skeptic because he is not being skeptical about his skepticism. If, on the other hand, a skeptic says, "I doubt I'm a skeptic," then he really is a skeptic because he's being skeptical about his skepticism. If a debunker is debunked, he may be a pseudo skeptic which may lead one to believe the debunked debunker is really a believer- a pself-hating psychic, I psuppose. Psimple! I'm glad this thread hasn't deteriorated into meaningless jibber-jabber. |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts
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You guys are mixing the philosophical notion of scepticism - of which there are several types - with the the type of investigative scepticism practiced by the likes of Randi or Shermer.
If you want to be a radical skeptic in the philisophical sense of the word you may as well give up thinking, discussion and any notion of truth - or what is 'real'. You can't be sure of any of it - apart from maybe the existence of yourself. All this criticism of sceptics is a real diversionary tactic used by woo-woo peddlers. It effectively shuts down any form of meaningful debate. If someone is simply sceptical of the existence of ghosts, points to the lack of evidence for ghosts, how there are many explanations that can explain away the anecdotal evidence for their existence - it is a very weak retort of the pro-ghost movement to simply say - ah he's not a true sceptic, because he isn't practising radical scepticism by questioning the basic assumptions that virtually all humans are agreed upon. We don't see many people questioning the reality of a fast moving bus by stepping in front of it after all. Hopefully this line of criticism from the anti-sceptic camp can now be seen to be as disingenuous as it is.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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CarlZen Special user 751 Posts
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Well said Davit.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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On 2012-03-10 08:45, Davit Sicseek wrote: I'm skeptical of the notion that you took my earlier definition seriously. 
Although referring to an entire group as "peddlers of woo" does indicate certain preconceived notions. Good thoughts, Bob |
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Posted: Mar 8, 2012 12:18 pm 
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