The helper concept is a good one with potential pitfalls.
Get the wrong spectator up there and it could really kill the routine if:

1. the spectator is a dim wit.
2. the spectator now thinks it's their show.
3. the spectator is uncomfortable / self-conscious, really lowing the energy on stage.
4. etc.

Goshman entered the WMS close-up contest, and everyone figure he was a shoe in to win. But, the woman assisting him was a total dud/jerk and killed his act and he slid right down the drain. So sad.

As a dealer for over 35 years, I always let the spectator do the cups and balls (before he gets the secret}. The mechanics of the effect allow it. Now, if c&b were that boring, how could us "dealers" present and sell them They are and always will be compelling.
I still love vernons version, and of course Johnny"Ace"Palmer.

Ian, dealers are presenting and selling them to those that love magic from a performance stand-point.
They are selling by giving a prospective customer the "i can't wait to be able to learn all the secrets and do this trick myself" feeling.

That's an easy sell.

I agree.

And maybe it is just me but I don't do any routines where an audience member becomes the performer. If I have a client - they are paying me as a pro to do the show. Sure I use a lot of helpers from the audience but not one of them becomes the magician - that is my part in the play that happens when I do a magic show.

C&B is not boring, but there is a lot of boring routines in magic. I think time is the big reason for that, look at Dai Vernons routine, I bet he would have made a 2-3 min routine if he invented it to day. Most starters on C&B are using the old routines that is 7-8 min then they ad 3-4 different moves they like. And then the boring part is here.

My choice for a C&B routine is a 2 cups routine, where each effect I presented with a 2 line poem. The hole routine is 3 min and it plays great for lay audiences. It is performed in Danish, so I don't give a video clip

There is a common misconception that Vernon "invented" the Vernon routine. He basically developed it from Max Malini's routine, according to a couple of my friends who learned Malini's routine from Malini's son.

A lot of the best material has never appeared in print. Al Baker's three ball C&B routine is a perfect example.

Just found this thread and have greatly enjoyed reading through all the different views here. I've looked for the "perfect" routine for me, and finally found that there isn't one. It's already been said many times: unless you are entertaining, then what you do doesn't matter. I am a huge fan of Michael Skinner's routine which was very entertaining to watch.

That said, I have three routines that I perform. The first is a variation of the Mendoza routine that I just found was way too long in its original form. The second is a two-cup routine that I learned from Aldo Colombini. The third is Malone's handling of Rub-A-Dub-Dub found on one of his videos. I feel that all three get a great response, though I find it quite interesting that the one that seems to get the best response of all is Rub-A-Dub-Dub.

Rick

I've enjoyed reading this entire thread. Just a few thoughts to Frank and the many others. This is a re-statement of some of the other posts, but boring magic is certainly not specific to cups and balls. There is a lot of really awful magic out there, being performed by awful magicians. There are a lot of people in the world who call themselves magicians. A 12 year-old kid who buys a Svengali Deck online can call himself a magician. This doesn't mean he is. It's the same with any kind of art or performance art. Some dude who tries out for American Idol and sucks, is probably thought to be pretty good by his friends and neighbors. Doesn't mean he is. Hmm, I'm rambling. Bottomline, there will also be subpar magicians, doing subpar magic. Be it cups and balls, card magic, coins, etc.. Unfortunately, unlike a licensed profession; law, medicine, etc... you can't regulate it and it will always be the case.

Another point entirely. I think an awful lot of hobbyist magicians focus too much time trying to fool other magicians, be it at a club meeting, convention, or whatever, because honestly, that is all they ever perform for. If you're not focusing 100% of your time and effort on lay people, I think the time is not well-spent.

I'm kinda taking it as a personal challenge to work out a routine that will use ordinary household objects for the routine rather than "magician's cups" and "crocheted balls". We'll see how it goes...

Rick

This has been a really great thread. Nobody mentioned David Regal's cups & balls & cups & balls rutine, very different with a great ending...

I don't think anyone forgot about Regal's routine. It's great indeed. It's just not the kind of c/b routine that most magicians perform, or that most audiences see. The Regal routine is one of a few that I believe truly set themselves apart. Others that are just off the top of my head (and I'm sure there are more) would include Gertner, Farquhar, Johnny Ace, etc..

I forgot to mention that unfortunately Regal's isn't a routine that I would do on the street either.

I fully agree with you, Bill! I too have always trusted my wife to help me to develop working, audience friendly routines. My magic has improved greatly, as a result.

In fact, her suggestion is: If you want to have a REAL magic competition, have it judged by the magician's wives - there is not a tougher audience - or judge - anywhere, and I will guarantee that you will learn where the weak spots are in your routine!

My saw my show so many times that she could no longer be objective. I found it best to seat her in the audience and listen to the comments.