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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Ya know, inexpensive energy helps people. The guys wanting to make it expensive to force people and companies to toe the line are egomaniacs who deep inside feel they are superior to the non-like minded. History has shown two things when in comes to nuc power. One is it is as safe as anything out there and two it scares people because they don't understand it. If they had a better jetti in Japan lives would have been saved but you would now think the eartquake and tsunami was caused by the plant.
Does anyone out there think that oil drilling companies have no interest or desire to not have spills? Jeez, some of you act like the bgreed mongers at BP wanted that spill in the gulf and would have taken steps to avoid it? Why doesn't anyone complain about that disaster of a volcaco in Hawaii? Why no outrage with companies running to China where pollutants are pumped into the air to float around the planet? I swear I believe some of you want to kill off half of the population to achieve your utopian dreams but you want to kill off the most productive half. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I saw an article recently, can't remember where, with a title something like: "Is Social Darwinism Really So Bad?"
It was a little terrifying. Oh, and I did read the whole article, not just the title
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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GlenD Inner circle LosAngeles, Ca 1293 Posts |
Climate change is independent of human activity. It's always been changing since before we even evolved from the slime, hasn't it? "Global warming" is the manmade earth heating fairy tale. How are we going to cool the earth down, if it does begin to rise at a truly life threatening rate? WE CANT'T! I can just imagine how badly Al Gore is hoping for the end of the world at the end of this year cuz it's looking like his prediction for the world ending in a ball of flame is not going to happen (little over 3 1/2 years left according to his prediction).
Glen
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin
"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!) |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Thanks, Santa. Two questions for the historians: after John D. Rockefeller created Standard Oil of Ohio, were petroleum products more or less expensive for the consumer? Better or worse quality?
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
...it's looking like his prediction for the world ending in a ball of flame is not going to happen... Taking a quick glance at the world political situation right now, I wouldn't be surprised if the world ended in a ball of flame any day now. Though, probably not the same kind of ball of flame you're talking about. Enjoy your summer!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Question for the deniers; Is there ANYTHING, any technology, any activity, anything at all that humanity can ever do to alter the climate? Do you believe it's simply not possible for humans to affect climate? Or that it is possible but the data doesn't support the claim? Just curious.
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-07 18:14, Woland wrote: That's like asking if the quality of cocaine and crack got better after the war on drugs started.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Denying what? Does climate change? Of course it does. Is it the fault of human kind? No it is part of the nature of this world. Is pollution good? Of course not. The simple fact is that if you want responsible manufacturing you keep it in countries that care more tan just power and having something to through labor at. I worked at an original top 20 super fund company, meaning we were a problem (Precision Monolithics Inc) and they put in bubblers, paid fines, and cleaned up their act. Before being run out of California under a different owner and name due to the state over regulation the company had one restriction, the company couldn't dump water that goes to the bay because it is too pure and must be mucked up first. Companies typically, not always, care and so the right thing here and in Canada or Europe. Not true in other parts of the world.
One thing I remember is that the fanatical enviromentalist, like other groups that took over countries need an enemy to focus on. Some group had the Jews or blacks or the educated or rich. The new target is evil deniers and those who are considered conservatives. As I said before I believe that some extremist who think they can 'save' the earth and if a billion or so non-enviromentally sensative types need to me sacrificed for the 'better good' then it is worth it.... |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Feel free to ignore the science, Santa. The facts are facts whether you agree with them or not.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I'm not ignoring science. Pollution isn't good but what is your plan? End all manufacuring? End personal ownership of cars and force a agricultural based utopia, Pol Pot tried it do we just need to perfect it? So what is the suggestion you have to end this completely human caused global warming?
Here, I'll ask the question no one asks. Attn conservatives, please step up and answer these questions: 1. Do you feel pollution is good? 2. Do you feel most companies in the US would rather be responsible rather than dumping chemicals in the streets and heavy metals into the air? 3. Do you think air pollution contributes at some level to environmntal changes if not globally at least regionally? 4. Do you believe that Chinese pollution is good because they are so dang in tune with their culture and they have such great natural cures? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-07 20:34, MagicSanta wrote: I... oh... I can't answer because I'm not a card carrying conservative
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
So GM and Ford are both in the top 10 on the Fortune 500 this year:
http://www.freep.com/article/20120507/BU......PAGE%7Cs Just thought I'd toss that out there.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-07 20:34, MagicSanta wrote: I guess I'm a card carrying liberal, but I'll give your questions a shot. But first I have to correct you. I don't think ANYONE has argued, least of all me, that global climate change is caused completely by humans. The science doesn't indicate that either. It merely shows that human activity contributes significantly to the problem. Here are your questions and my answers: 1. Do you feel pollution is good? A- I certainly hope that everyone on both sides agrees that it's bad. I feel, however, that stripping away government regulations will simply make the problem worse. I supported Cap and Trade legislation when it was first introduced by the Republicans. You will recall that McCain and Palin actually campaigned in favor of it as a reasonable way to reduce carbon emissions. The problem was that as soon as Obama said he agreed with that approach, the right abandoned it and suddenly started calling their own idea "socialist." It's easy to see, then, who has politicized the issue. 2. Do you feel most companies in the US would rather be responsible rather than dumping chemicals in the streets and heavy metals into the air? No. BP is the perfect example. Since the oil spill - one of the worst ecological disasters in American history - they have done virtually nothing to address the problem of how to handle future similar disasters. That's simply a matter of record. Corporations are guided by profit and, in the absence of reasonable regulations, they will simply do what's most profitable regardless of its effect on the environment. That, too, is simply a matter of historical record. 3. Do you think air pollution contributes at some level to environmntal changes if not globally at least regionally? Given that it is possible to see pollution on earth from the International Space Station, I think it's pretty safe to say that it's not exactly benefiting our ecosystem, to put it mildly. 4. Do you believe that Chinese pollution is good because they are so dang in tune with their culture and they have such great natural cures? No, but your premise has nothing to do with your conclusion. Pollution and carbon emissions are a global problem and must be addressed globally as well as nationally. But we can't argue that it's okay for us to keep peeing in our pool just because the Chinese are peeing in theirs. I hope that you aren't too shocked by my radically socialist answers. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The government is setting the initial price for a tonne of carbon emissions at $10.
Ten dollars for a lot of nothings! How many do you want?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Quote:
That's like asking if the quality of cocaine and crack got better after the war on drugs started. No, it isn't. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
The Soviet Union's government run industry was a far worse polluter than the privately held industries in the West.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-07 22:51, Woland wrote: No doubt. But what of it? Just because another nation was worse doesn't make what we do okay. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
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Is there ANYTHING, any technology, any activity, anything at all that humanity can ever do to alter the climate? Do you believe it's simply not possible for humans to affect climate? Or that it is possible but the data doesn't support the claim? 1) Whether or not there is a "global climate" that can be summed up in a single temperature is questionable. 2) The current climates in the world are not significantly warmer than they have been at times in the pre-industrial past. 3) The truth of the assertion that the rather modest increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide that can be attributed to human industry are capable of causing catastrophic effects due to a significant warming of the world's climates rests on highly convoluted models and extensively massaged data. 4) Even if there is a "global climate," and even if it warmer now than it was during the Ice Age, and even if some of that warming can be attributed to human activity, that the consequences will be catastrophic or even negative at all is far from proven. 5) As tommy reminds us, the whole carbon-credit, carbon-trading business is more dishonest than a grifter's monte. 6) As a number of municipalities in Australia are finding out, the remedies that the "green fascists" apply to the carbon dioxide "problem" are expensive at best, and if implemented on a world scale, would have catastrophic results. The lives of hundreds of millions of people would be adversely affected by dismantling world industrial civilization, and many millions would die. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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5) As tommy reminds us, the whole carbon-credit, carbon-trading business is more dishonest than a grifter's monte. Except when it was a Republican idea, right? |
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