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RJE2 Veteran user 383 Posts |
Creative Magic made some great props. I bought, used and then sold, the Shadow Tent. I bought and still use the Change Cap and Bigger Wands.
However, since they are now closed for business, is it okay for someone to make their own props based on the Creative Magic ones for their own personal use? For the record, I have no intention of making anything. This is just a question for the question's sake to see what people think would be right or wrong here. |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
Sad to see them go- I have a good bit of their stuff. As to your question, I guess the first stop would be to see if they sold their rights, or just closed up...
Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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JJKnight New user 52 Posts |
I have to agree with Mr. Myst, try and find the products for sale somewhere else and if they don't appear to be for sale I can't see why you can't reproduce the designs for personal use but resell is definantly a no-no. Sharing the designs would be taboo as well.
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Danny Kazam Inner circle 1516 Posts |
Does Creative Magic own the rights to the shadow tent and it's method? I have a few old books that teach how to make your own illusions, and one of them is the shadow tent.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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RJE2 Veteran user 383 Posts |
I don't know if they own the rights to the products they produced or not.
Again, I personally have no intentions of making anything that resembles their products. However, there are some, for example bigger wands, and the beach ball routines that would not be hard to make for the do it yourselfer. I was just curious about what the ethics of it are now that Creative Magic is no longer in business. |
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longhaired1 Veteran user Salida 316 Posts |
I'm not certain who owns the rights to Wine in Newspaper, but when I was a performing magician I made up an half dozen sets (after having purchased the effect). Mine were stronger, had a larger capacity, and I wanted to use a fresh newspaper for every performance. If I was doing three a day I needed three made up and ready to go. I would never have sold them to anyone else, and I am confident that what I did was moral and ethical, even if the company was still in business.
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
Thanks, guys! I myself, needed this answer in deciding whether or not to make up another Jerry Andrus "Zone Zero". I bought the three volume video series years ago and had a plastics manufacturer make me a Zero Board. I bought the Rubber Ball at Walgreen's.
Well, now that I have started over, should I just BUY another board? $45 is a lot of money for me, but doing the right thing and being able to sleep at night and look myself in the mirror is important. I would add that I HAD already purchased the videos showing how to do it. Does that give me the right to make it up and perform it if my original was LOST, but the knowledge was retained? It does get a bit sketchy. The original Zone Zero was cardboard. I felt the black acrylic was much finer. To be honest, I think I'll just buy it. Can't go wrong that way, ANY way you look at it! Doug |
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RJE2 Veteran user 383 Posts |
Hi Doug,
That's another interesting question. If you have already bought an item, is it okay to make a similar copy, only better, because you find flaws in the original? I would say that if you paid for it, then it would be okay to also make one for yourself to use considering that you are not going to be happy using the original. The creator/builder got their sale and you get to use a decent prop. |
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JJKnight New user 52 Posts |
I could be wrong but in most situations the community (I don't presume to speak for everyone but it does seem to be the prevailing opinion) considers the purchased item to be the secret not necessarily the gimmick. Magic inventors seem to be more concerned with the method than the gimmick (again only my observation).
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
I've always been told that I'm paying for the secret and it's a good thing because some of the cra**y workmanship and materials I've bought simply demand that one remake the item. I feel fine about remaking an effect to suit my show or to fix a defect in manufacture. If I buy an effect at a auction I also feel fine about a remake.
If I have a good item and it wears out I might make a new one or buy it again depending on the trouble involved. -Mary Mowder |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
"Hmmm...my Hummer Whirling Card 'broke'...guess I need to order a new one."
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-09 12:29, JJKnight wrote: I am confused. What is the difference between the "purchased item" and the "gimmick"? You seem to be saying no one is interested or concerned about the "gimmick". I disagree... but then I am still confused...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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JJKnight New user 52 Posts |
I am referring to the secret of the construction or method as being more important than the purchase of a single physical item. For example a packet trick with a AS/QH DF card can easily have the card replaced with a AC/KS if the patter changes also. The method is the same, the basic plot is the same, but a physical change has been made. The trick itself is basically the same and has been purchased already whereas the derived trick is still related and should be credited accordingly.
I must apologize to the confusion. Purchased Item = secret of trick gimmick = physical item |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-03 08:10, RJE2 wrote: If the products had copyrights, then the law was 17 years, no one can infringe on the copyrights. I don't know if they lessened the time or increased it, but is the company really out of business. I believe they are still in business until all the products are distributed and then it sounded like they may go in another direction. They were not real clear on the future of the company as such. Also the investment for the materials that have to be purchased in bulk, is beyond making something for your personal use. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-18 17:11, JJKnight wrote: No changing the names of the cards is not enough of a change to market your own trick. The use of a split card would be the determining fact more then the name of the playing cards. Changing the name of a card is not a physical change, it is still a playing card. If you changed it to using a rough and smooth or sticky tape, then that would be a change. Patter is not a factor as well, changing and to the is not enough of a change. Again, copyright laws will be in effect if it is copyrighted. |
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JJKnight New user 52 Posts |
I could be wrong but I think you are the first person to bring up Marketing a trick. It was my understanding this entire discussion was for the personal use of a refill or rebuild of a previously purchased effect. I would never promote copyright infringement. If the desired outcome is to have a product without ever actually purchasing it that is out and out theft.
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Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts |
Hardly any magic is ever copyrighted or able to be so. As for remaking or improving something for personal use, especially if you already purchased it, is really a question for your own morals. I think it's fine. Others might not. Right and wrong is all in the mind.
Official Thread Killer
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-24 03:31, Stucky wrote: Not when it affects others...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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RJE2 Veteran user 383 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-23 12:09, JJKnight wrote: You are correct JJ. I was only asking about what the consensus was for someone who wished to make something similar to, or based on, a Creative Magic prop for their own personal use. I never intended to have my question interpreted to ask if it is alright to be making these props for commercial purposes. Also, to reiterate, I have no intentions of making anything based on any Creative Magic props. I have a fine set of Bigger Wands and Change Cap that I use regularly and have no need for anything else Creative Magic made at this time, or in the foreseeable future. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
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On 2012-07-03 08:10, RJE2 wrote: This is simply my opinion, but I wouldn't see the need to make your own. There are lots of new / near new items being sold by the Creative Magic portion holders, so it's not like the original items are scarce. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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