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illusionistaxe New user 69 Posts |
I bought this knife through coat by Mikame. People seem to be clueless about the illusion. The only drawback is, the paper holder does not suit the environment. But, I have put a reason for using that paper holder in my presentation so that nobody suspects anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDaCjnWeul8 |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
All Knife Thru Coat routine use a piece of paper. The purpose for the audience, is not to hide what you are doing, but to have proof that the knife actually went through the coat or jacket. It is tangible proof of the effect actually happening. Also it is there to create suspense for the spectator watching. Sort of "Cliffhanger" for the trick, thus the spectators will continue watching to see what the hole in the garment looks like.
We as magicians lose sight of the total effect, and don't look at the trick from the spectator's point of view. The paper is unimportant to the total effect, but it is there for anyone wishing to actually see what happened. As for a reason, I never thought I needed to have a reason as we all know, that magic happens in certain circumstances and under certain conditions. We are not Gods or Super Human Beings, we are Magicians, thus our experiments happen under our conditions to create that possible miracle. Magician means we use trickery, deceit, and lies to create our magic tricks. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
The paper is there as a cover. You can try to justify that it's there as a proof. But it's not. That's just what we tell ourselves so we can sleep at night.
If you were actually going to push a knife through a spectators coat, and wanted to prove to the audience that it was going through, you'd simply push it half way and cleanly show that it was going through the coat. The paper cover is the weak link in this effect as it is required to perform most versions of the effect. but you have little motivation for using it. I've been playing with a version that would use a paper covered coat hanger. The type you often get from the dry cleaners. At least this is an everyday object and something you'd see in conjunction with a coat.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Everything that has no reason to be in a trick other than because it is needed to make the method work benefits from being given a motivated reason that justifies it's presence. Otherwise it is at best a redundant element that is overlooked by the spectator and at worst gives away or points to how the trick works.
This isn't a case of looking at an effect from the point of view of 'magician as spectator' and losing sight of the actual spectator's perspective... it's doing the job we magicians are supposed to do which is to create moments of astonishment from a convincing mystery in an entertaining way. Something we say, do, or use, that leaves a question mark over it's presence is a potentially weak point the magic and such routines benefit from having these weaknesses removed or reduced. Of course if the justification for the presence of something in a routine isn't convincing the effect might end up being worse than if no motivation was ascribed to it in the first place. This is not a failing of the idea that such weaknesses ought to be removed... it's a failing of the limits of our creative abilities as magicians and scriptwriters. One can always turn a blind eye to such details... and in many effects, including this one, I have heard many a magician say that they, 'get away with it'. ('it' being a dodgy element or moment in a trick) This turn of phrase gives away the impoverished position of such a stance. Rather than planning, in spite of the structuring of a trick and it's routine, to 'get away with it'... it surely has to be better to have a performance work because of the structuring of the trick and it's routine. I think the knife through coat effect is a good one even with no justification for the presence of the paper (or in this case the even more odd looking wooden thing clamped onto a piece of paper)... but I also think it benefits greatly and is better from having the paper's presence motivated by something other than just the method needing it to be there.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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illusionistaxe New user 69 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-25 20:34, Sealegs wrote: very good point. Posted: Oct 25, 2012 09:20 pm I know that all knife thru coat effects have paper covering. but since this unusual wooden holder is provided, I was wondering if the audience will suspect. But, after performance I was really happy that it was worth the money. also the paper helps me in a funny presentation I had put up. so it works like a charm. cheers. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Slydini did a knife through coat with NO COVER.... took guts and you had to borrow a coat with a certain fabric. (One time I saw him ruin a guys coat.)
And Himber had a killer cut/restored necktie with borrowed tie and no switch.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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illusionistaxe New user 69 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-26 01:44, Pete Biro wrote: really?! any link to the videos of their performance? |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Nope... this was long before video was invented.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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leaycraft Regular user 191 Posts |
I believe Bob Read has routine for this as well- I will have to check my files.
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." A. Conan Doyle," The Sign of Four"
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randirain Inner circle Fort Worth, TX 1650 Posts |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OXC4J-E6jI
Richard Osterlind's version uses a cover, but you don't have to, he does though. I won't say why, I will let everyone figure it out. I will just say it's not the same reason that Mikame and other versions have. Plus, Osterlind takes the cover away and shows you. Watch the video. Randi |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Bob Read did sell a manuscript on the Knife thru Coat. It is the best I have ever read. You actually hear the coat be ripped in his version.
I got my copy from him autographed from England. The manuscript is copy protected, but being printed in light blue, as copy machines will not pick up on the light blue printing, back before computers and scanners were available. |
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Moxahalla Special user Los Angeles 751 Posts |
The "NO Cover" versions (as mentioned above)---were probably based on the Tannen/Harrison VISIBLE "Knife Thru Coat"---which, I believe Richard O. is sort of re-releasing.
Takes guts, and be sure your liability insurance is paid up. Otherwise, use Biro's "Stretching A Thimble" |
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randirain Inner circle Fort Worth, TX 1650 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-02 16:45, Moxahalla wrote: It's in Tarbell just like everything else is. I have had it done to my clothes before. Hard to believe, but it does work. |
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Rolf Reiner Loyal user Mallorca - Spain 229 Posts |
I used to perform a version that Jeff Hobson did on an English TV series about 15 years ago. I do not know if it is taught somewhere, I figured the mechanics out and used my own presentation for the effect, and there are no paper covers and no gimmicks involved. And no way it could ruin a coat.
In my version of this effect a topit is also involved, and a bigger knife, but it is not a necessity. Knife can be examined before and after the effect. It can be seen on this old TV show by, I believe, Thames TV in England. I used to have it on VHS but it´s long gone. British magicians will know what I´m talking about, many US and English magicians appeared on that show. Find it and you will be treated to a great knife through coat effect. However, I do not know if the routine is public domain or if it has been released by Hobson. |
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ARNOMAGIE Regular user France 200 Posts |
Rolf
Are you sure it was Jeff Hobson and not Wayne Dobson? |
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Rolf Reiner Loyal user Mallorca - Spain 229 Posts |
Jeff Hobson, on the Comedy Magic Strip. (Finally managed to remember the name of the show).
He used a rather small knife that looked a bit like a letter opener. The show aired in 91-92, but memory still serves me... after some delay. I found my old props for this routine today. Have not touched it in a decade or more, not because it is not good, but simply because since moving to Mallorca and working the summer season this trick made no sense in my show anymore. Posted: Nov 10, 2012 06:05 pm Here is a clip from that series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R78x7LmUk9w A VHS with several episodes went around the magic community in the nineties. |
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mmmario Regular user perth/shanghai 140 Posts |
I draw a target on the paper, deliberately push the knife through the paper far from the centre of the target, give the audience an 'oops' look, then slowly move the knife back and forth in short sawing motion until its in the centre of the target. Big smile. It gets a great reaction.
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ARNOMAGIE Regular user France 200 Posts |
The target idea come from Wayne Dobson.
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Doug Arden Special user 886 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-12 18:43, ARNOMAGIE wrote: Paul Daniels has also been using a target in his routine for a very long time. He performed the routine using a target on a British TV series he did many years ago. I have it on tape. He looks pretty young then so I'm not sure who's idea it was first, Wayne's or Paul's? |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Wayne Dobson and Paul Daniels is both to young to be the origianl people for the target drawn on the paper. Done way before the above mentioned current magicians using it.
Just because they do it, does not mean it was their original idea. |
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