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seneca77 Loyal user Tampa Bay, Florida 201 Posts |
Not really sure where to post this, since it relates to all of magic, but I'm putting it here because of my thoughts of using Martyn Smith's "Up The Ante".
I was watching Stanley Kubrick's famous "2001: A Space Odyssey" the other day, one of my favorite movies, and I got to thinking, would a magician be able to fool HAL, the self-aware, intelligent computer featured in the movie. Strictly a hypothetical exercise, but what effects do you think HAL could see right through, and what effects would fool him? Many sleights and tricks rely on misdirection, and I don't think he would be fooled. Anything in his field of vision would be seen. But what about a trick like Smith's "Up The Ante"? If HAL were not aware of the underlying principle, would he be able to figure it out? Any other tricks out there you think would fool HAL? - Bob |
S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Anything that uses Simon Aronson's Undo Influence control.
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captainsmiffy Special user UK, resident UAE 589 Posts |
I hope that Up The Ante would fool HAL.....it seems so counter-intuitive, occasionally, to me whilst performing it........
best, Martyn Smith (!)
Have you tried 'Up The Ante' yet?? The ultimate gambling demo....a self-working wonder! See the reviews here on the cafe.
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Andrew M New user 59 Posts |
I'm not sure Up The Ante is the sort of trick I'd try fooling HAL with. Although it is brilliantly counter-intuitive to humans, it is firmly based on some underlying combinatorial mathematics, and mathematics is the sort of thing that computers are generally good at. (And even if he didn't know the principle he could probably run a large number of simulations of the laydown and work something out that way.)
However, if you throw in some sleight of hand at the start - false shuffles, etc - so that the initial conditions don't appear to match the necessary preconditions for doing something like Up The Ante, then I think you'd be more likely to get away with it. |
Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
We use flaws in perception, lack of knowledge and sensory limitations to create deception. Whatever limitations a computer would have could be exploited to our advantage. The video sampling rate is one such limitation, lack of imagination is another.
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Nicholas Night New user Lansing Mi 93 Posts |
I'd have to say invisible deck. There is nothing for a computer to see, and it has little imagination to come up with a trick deck.
Then again,. Perhaps it would notice that it only sees 26 cards? That would depend on the position of he card I guess. |
alicauchy Veteran user Málaga, Spain 310 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-26 15:32, Andrew M wrote: Not really. Brute force methods do not work with a full deck of cards. Just for comparison, there is no place in the *whole known universe* to accommodate all the possible different ordered decks of 52 cards.
So much to do, so little time . . .
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Andrew M New user 59 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-12-17 18:00, alicauchy wrote: But HAL here isn't interested in all possible orderings of a deck of cards, only the orderings that could have given rise to the layout of cards we see on the table at the conclusion of a particular performance of Up the Ante. (I would say more, but that starts to turn into an explanation of the trick itself.) |
alicauchy Veteran user Málaga, Spain 310 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-12-17 18:19, Andrew M wrote: In that case, HAL should filter out (somehow) all the orderings not concerned with the climax of the effect. Again, there is a big computational problem on how to filter out these possible orderings. Always assuming that HAL has a big computational power, but is not omniscient.
So much to do, so little time . . .
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Andrew M New user 59 Posts |
I hadn't properly thought through the details before, but having now done so I'll give you a number: 46496 (actually you only really need to consider 5820 cases to get down to a handful of options). A lot less than the 8x10^67 possible orderings of a deck. (The workings are an exercise for the reader, or I might get round to writing them up at some point...)
Thinking about this has, however, made me conclude that a good trick to try to fool HAL with would be one with multiple outs, since that would stop him from being able to reconstruct the complete workings from a single observation. |
Leo Reynolds Jr Special user 864 Posts |
Dai Vernon's Trick that Cannot be Explained
Best Leo Jr |
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