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Oli
New user
Essex, UK
46 Posts
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Posted: Nov 5, 2003 5:45pm
Just vamped up my Inviso-Torch with a new flint system, after not using it for a while. Does anyone have any good suggestions for effects with it? Obviously not giving too much away!
Oli
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djvirtualreality
Inner circle
MayfieldNew York
1347 Posts
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Posted: Nov 6, 2003 1:46pm
If someone asks you for a light (a cig) you could do that. I produce fans of cards, or coins. I have no hair on my fingers though lol.
Life is an illusion, death is reality.
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Steveblackwell
New user
99 Posts
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Posted: Nov 11, 2003 3:01pm
I'd say handing out your business card using the torch is good and memorable.
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BroDavid
Inner circle
America’s North Coast, Ohio
3182 Posts
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Posted: Nov 24, 2003 2:26pm
Have an object in your hand, fire the InvisoTorch and vanish the item by the method of your choice. As I recall Jim has video on vanishing a bottle this way.
And the reverse works well too, start with "nothing in your hands", and fire the inviso torch and suddenly have something appear (also by the method of your choice) in your hand.
The unexpected appearance of a plume of fire gives you plenty of distraction and misdirection to do just about anything that benefits from midirection and visual surprise.
And believe me, people will (no matter how far away) step back when the fire appears. So with them moving away, you have all the time you need to do some magic.
BroDavid
BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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Telemus
Regular user
Everett WA
128 Posts
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Posted: Dec 10, 2003 12:43am
I use it as an attention getter. When doing walk around at a ren fair that is how I assemble a crowd. That way, if it takes a couple of stikes to ignite, then no one sees it till it is lit but every body sees it when I start my dialog.
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paisa23
Inner circle
3 years no smoking. And counting
5226 Posts
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Posted: Feb 20, 2005 5:31am
Telemus is that the inviso torch on your avatar? I want to get this but looking for a demo of some sort.
"GIVING YOU GUYS A HEADS UP, IM ENGAGED TO BE WED IN SEPTEMBER!"
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Daegs
Inner circle
USA
4180 Posts
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Posted: Feb 20, 2005 5:22pm
http://whiterabbitmagic.net/files/invisotorch.MPG
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paisa23
Inner circle
3 years no smoking. And counting
5226 Posts
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Posted: Feb 22, 2005 5:54pm
Hoe good is this gimmick and how durable and limitations please PM so not to reveal to much.
"GIVING YOU GUYS A HEADS UP, IM ENGAGED TO BE WED IN SEPTEMBER!"
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Mystician
Inner circle
Wallachia
3403 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2005 1:26pm
Actually I was going to ask Bro David what he's using in his avatar.
I just won the Inviso-Torch on eBay from Jim pace, it was a steal (gotta love it, he must hate me though !), so I'm looking forward to comparing this with the Igniter, which I acquired the exact same way. In fact, I just won yet a 3rd item from him, the flaming comic book gimmick - should be verrry interesting when I receive these items.
(Almost forgot - I also got Hot Leads, so that's 4 items now I've gotten, all for roughly half price, via Jim's eBay store. Must be a well kept secret or something..)
Heh.. I must sound like a pyromaniac, but it's hard to ignore a great deal when I see one !
Mortals' minds are toys to be played with, and prey to be toyed with.
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paisa23
Inner circle
3 years no smoking. And counting
5226 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2005 6:55pm
Mystician
Well you pretty much have an idea on how I am so when you get them could you please drop me a line and let me know which route I should go with.
"GIVING YOU GUYS A HEADS UP, IM ENGAGED TO BE WED IN SEPTEMBER!"
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magical65stang
New user
Turlock, CA
73 Posts
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Posted: Feb 25, 2005 2:25pm
I've had this thing for over a year and never used it. As you can tell I love the idea of having flashes of fire around, but I can't get past the feeling that everyone knows I am trying to light something, even if my hands are empty. I went by Jim's instructions on how to use it, but I just feel like it looks like I'm going to light a cigarette. I thought the idea was to have fire just leap from your palm, but I can't seem to get that.
If anyone could give any advice on how I could improve my handling or give me other ideas of how to use it I would love that. just pm me if it can't be put in here. Thanks again, I would love to put this thing into my routine!
"I'm not a liar, you just don't see the truth."
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Mystician
Inner circle
Wallachia
3403 Posts
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Posted: Feb 28, 2005 2:57pm
Quote:
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On 2005-02-24 18:55, paisa23 wrote:
Mystician
Well you pretty much have an idea on how I am so when you get them could you please drop me a line and let me know which route I should go with.
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You got it.
I haven't received it yet though, I'll let you know. Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of this thing. I'm gonna freak out a few people I think, it should be more impressive than something which just uses flash paper. - Although with enough flash paper, even a finger flint thingy can be impressive.
Mortals' minds are toys to be played with, and prey to be toyed with.
http:// www . phrets . com
Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net
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paisa23
Inner circle
3 years no smoking. And counting
5226 Posts
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Posted: Mar 14, 2005 8:01pm
OK I got mine and am working with it a little. has anyone ever been hurt by this. Like it doesn't shut off or something? and also in the demo clips above he doesn't seem to have it the way the directions explain as far as where to A@#%or it. the shirt was buttoned up.
"GIVING YOU GUYS A HEADS UP, IM ENGAGED TO BE WED IN SEPTEMBER!"
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Mystician
Inner circle
Wallachia
3403 Posts
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Posted: Mar 14, 2005 8:26pm
It may seem counter-intuitive, but just let go of it - the valve will automatically shut when the nozzle end snaps back, and kill the flame.
I guess you could anchor it a couple different places, but so far I've only used the one in the instructions. It might be dangerous to try it up your sleeve, because if it gets stuck when it's time to retract, the flame might not go out. Then you'd probably set your arm on fire !
That'd look pretty stupid.
 
Mortals' minds are toys to be played with, and prey to be toyed with.
http:// www . phrets . com
Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net
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BroDavid
Inner circle
America’s North Coast, Ohio
3182 Posts
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Posted: Mar 14, 2005 8:52pm
Sorry it took me so long to respond Mysticisn. The fires in my hands in the Avatar are Dave Powell's Omega fire gimmicks.
They serve well for certain situations, and for sustained flames (15-25 seconds) they are great. But the inviso torch is my choice for a lot more spontaneous flames, and gimmick that is gone as quickly as the flame appeared.
I agree that a sleeve is not a very good anchor option for a couple of reasons; first the path from the anchor point to the tip should be straight and unencumbered. And secondly you also need it to retract freely, to extinguish the flame. And lastly, fire close to any fabric is a bad idea.
BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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Daegs
Inner circle
USA
4180 Posts
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Posted: Mar 14, 2005 9:00pm
Quote:
| It may seem counter-intuitive, but just let go of it - the valve will automatically shut when the nozzle end snaps back, and kill the flame. |
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This is close, but actually wrong(just barely).
While the fuel line will be shut off when the thing retracts, it will not snuff out the flame.
To test this, snap it on and then slowly retract... the flame will stay for 5 seconds or so with the fuel line off.
What stops the flame is the quickness that you let go of it, if it snaps back with enough force, the fuel moves faster than the flame can due to wind resistance and it will lose its combustion... so even if the fuel line stays on, the snap will put out the flame and it won't start back up.
This is a fact that many newcommers to the Inviso-Torch misunderstand and that is the reason that they usually get burnt or have it retract still with a flame.
It is the "snap" and quickness of the retraction that puts it out, not the fact that the valve shuts when its retracted.
So make sure you always release it with a good snap and good tension on the tube.
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paisa23
Inner circle
3 years no smoking. And counting
5226 Posts
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Posted: Mar 14, 2005 9:48pm
Ok sounds like great advice. Thanks a lot . also if there are no needle nose pliers around what else could be used to adjust the gimmick. and is it really needed I would hate to damage it.
Update:
OK ive been messing with it and I still havent adjusted the nozzle but any way what is considered a good snap I mean has any one ever pulled it of the clips or has anyone ever broken it?
"GIVING YOU GUYS A HEADS UP, IM ENGAGED TO BE WED IN SEPTEMBER!"
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Daegs
Inner circle
USA
4180 Posts
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Posted: Mar 15, 2005 5:15am
Not too hard, but enough so that it actually snap retracts back and doesn't just fall down your side.
It should make a bee line for your jacket, it shouldn't "swoop" down.
What I've found about the nozzle, is to tighten it up all the way first.
4 turns will detach the nozzle completed, 3 turns is pretty loose.
So I tighten it up all the way and then give 2 full turns open, and it stays solid and lets out a huge jet.
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paisa23
Inner circle
3 years no smoking. And counting
5226 Posts
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Posted: Mar 15, 2005 6:10am
OK now that we are playing with this what are good effects besides productions?
"GIVING YOU GUYS A HEADS UP, IM ENGAGED TO BE WED IN SEPTEMBER!"
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BroDavid
Inner circle
America’s North Coast, Ohio
3182 Posts
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Posted: Mar 15, 2005 4:20pm
I have used mine at outdoor events, simpy to attract attention so that I can easily get a small crowd interested, and people moving over to see what "that" was all about, and then I can start my routine.
Beofre I got my first Inviso torch, I used to use a little electronic shooter that had to be primed with flash cotton, and then flash paper. So if I didn't start drawing a crowd on the first two shots (I used two of them), then I had to go aside and reload them. And then once I shot them off, there was always the issue of having to get rid of them.
But now that I have two Phoenix's as well as my original Inviso Torch, I don't have to worry about those kind of issues.
BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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Mystician
Inner circle
Wallachia
3403 Posts
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Posted: Mar 15, 2005 11:56pm
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 21:00, Daegs wrote:
Quote:
| It may seem counter-intuitive, but just let go of it - the valve will automatically shut when the nozzle end snaps back, and kill the flame.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is close, but actually wrong(just barely).
What stops the flame is the quickness that you let go of it, if it snaps back with enough force,
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I think I'd better get in here and clear a few things up.
Let's see ..
- Daegs, You make a valid point of making sure the device snaps back briskly. However, if I may pick nits, why you would catagorize my response as wrong (even though barely) puzzles me. You might say there is an additional detail there that may have been lacking, but let's not overreact
Here's the thing - in order to open the valve, you have to yank on the thing pretty good; I know I have to - therefore, you've already created a good solid tension.
When I said, "just let it go", I literally meant, just let it go, and it will snap back, with considerable force. Mine does. What ultimately kills the flame is the fact that the source of gas is cut off. Making sure it snaps back quickly, briskly, and cleanly makes sure the flame goes out immediately.
I've haven't had a problem with it going out yet. Anyone who'se read the instructions knows how it operates, I can't imagine why anybody would ease the thing back, but then I guess that's why cereal boxes have legal disclaimers on them now like, "This box is not meant for consumption nor to be used as temporary housing construction material."
Actually, now I'm curious. Have you tried blowing it out ? I wonder if that work ?
- Just so there's no confusion on paisa's part,(as per my many PMs with him) I define nozzle as the part at the very end where the flame jets out, the part held in your hand; not the part that you adjust to control the amount of butane to be ignited. That part I just refer to as the valve. Paisa's itorch has the same thing as mine did when I first got it: where the nozzle tip ends at the top of the flint wheel, rather than the bottom of the wheel where the flint is struck. It seemed logical to me to move it down a quarter inch, which I did, and it ignites more reliably now for me. I suggested to paisa that he do the same if he wants. I guess if you're spewing out huge clouds of butane it won't much matter, but for smaller quicker bursts I think it makes sense.
Mortals' minds are toys to be played with, and prey to be toyed with.
http:// www . phrets . com
Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net
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Daegs
Inner circle
USA
4180 Posts
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Posted: Mar 16, 2005 1:20am
Quote:
| What ultimately kills the flame is the fact that the source of gas is cut off. |
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I'm not trying to "be right" or argue with you, but here again you are wrong.
Every fire needs air, fuel, and an ignition(basically just anything that heats up the fuel to its combustion temp). The ignition can be a material reaching its flash point or it can be a pre-existing flame or a spark, ect.
If you just have 2 out of those 3, you won't have a fire.
So here you have an Inviso-Torch, it has fuel(gas), air and what keeps it burning is the pre-existing flame(after you have ignited it with sparks).
Simulate a snap without shutting off the valve, take an ignited Inviso Torch and wave it really fast. What happens is that the flame(due to air resistance) can't catch up to the fuel source(which is moved away). So you only have 2 parts of the thing needed to have a fire(the fuel isn't heated up to its flash point), so the flame shuts off.
Now try another expirament, take the IT and slowly retract the tube, shutting of the fuel supply. The flame withers before shutting off about 3-5 seconds later.
So what I'm saying, is that if you are like 99% of Inviso Torch users and are retracting it properly, then it is the snap that shuts off the flame by removing the heat source of the fuel, and *not* removing the fuel source.
In fact, there is still some fuel in the tube when the flame snaps off, which gets released after its retracted but because there is no heat source, it doesn't combust.
If you wanted to, you could configure the Inviso Torch so that it never shut off its fuel line... Letting it retract properly will still shut it off and it will release the rest of its fuel supply inside your jacket but with no flame.
So it is the snap, and not the fuel line being shut off that causes the flame to extinguish.
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Mystician
Inner circle
Wallachia
3403 Posts
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Posted: Mar 18, 2005 8:42pm
Well if I didn't know better, I'd say you were getting your "daegs" in ! 
Let me clarify, yet again, the "ultimately" statement:
Perhaps the way I should've worded it is, that the closing of the valve provides a finality to the extinguishing of the flame.
As I said in my last post, yes, if you gently ease the thing back, it won't shut off right away. I realize that. Slow down a little and read more carefully, I'm really not disagreeing with you. My main point there in my last post, actually, was simply that, due to the high tension one must maintain to open the valve in the first place, (and keep it open) the act of simply "letting it go" is sufficient to effect a brisk, rapid snap back of the device, thus extinguishing the flame. The same goes for someone who pulls a rubber-band almost to the breaking point, if one hand then simply lets go, the band will snap back with great force - no other movement is necessary other than to simply release the band from the fingers.
Now then, the flame is out, but, if the valve were not to close, eventually then, as you said, the gas would build up under your jacket - a very dangerous situation, and one that could rekindle the flame, so to speak, if another source of igition were to occur - possibly even a spark of static set off by the movement of layers of clothing, like a blazer or jacket rubbing against a shirt. Of course, one could understandably argue that this would constitute a new, totally different flame, and so make the point moot, but whatever - you get my drift - that's what I meant by "ultimately", I mean it lent it a finality, no way the flame could start again without deliberately starting the entire process over again.
No disagreements here so far, right ?
Just to be the devil's advocate though .. mauahahaaa..
What if, you know.. theoretically .. what if you're technically wrong about the wind resistance ? Have you actually tried waving your invisotorch around with a 12 inch blazing flame atop it ? Did it go out ? That's a lot of fuel being fed that flame, and like the oil well fires at the end of the first half of the Iraq war, mere wind nor sandstorms were not enough to extinguish those blazes.
What if, the act of rapidly retracting the device expels the remaining butane gas from the hose as it closes the valve ?
If this were to be the case, then the real reason the flame goes out is twofold: the source of gas is cutoff by the closing of the valve, and all of the remaining gas in the hose is forcefully expelled out by the rapid contraction of the hose - leaving nothing left to burn - and external "wind" or air resistance has nothing to do with it ?
Now if only I could do an Al Pacino impression.
Mortals' minds are toys to be played with, and prey to be toyed with.
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Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net
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Daegs
Inner circle
USA
4180 Posts
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Posted: Mar 19, 2005 3:37am
Hehe, intresting.
Quote:
| Have you actually tried waving your invisotorch around with a 12 inch blazing flame atop it ? |
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Actually, yes, I have. And yes it does go out.
Intresting theory on the gas forcibly being let out, but because the width of the tube would be expanding as the length decreases, it would only be the inertia that would make the gass come out the end and it retracts... I'd say that half the tube would probably be forcefully exerted and the other half would stay in the tube.
Intresting idea though...
Also the gas jacket did give me an idea that I'm not too keen on trying out, but it would be something like 2 inviso torches letting out butane inside your jacket and then sparking both at the same time... Could provide a "flash" appearence.
Though I don't think I'll try that anytime soon, but the idea definatly could goto other things, such as letting gas spew into a container of some sort before igniting, might provide a huge burst!
Anyone know if butane is heavier or lighter than air?(I'd say lighter but who knows) and how fast it disperses? could you put it into a bowl?
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Mystician
Inner circle
Wallachia
3403 Posts
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Posted: Mar 19, 2005 12:04pm
Ah bummer, I just tried waving mine around and it went out too
heh
As to your double invtorch idea, though, I think I'll just get (or build) a fism flash instead ! 
Butane is lighter than air, there's even some concern about it's effect on the Ozone layer. It's an alkaline hydrocarbon.
Mortals' minds are toys to be played with, and prey to be toyed with.
http:// www . phrets . com
Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net
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Steve Dela
Special user
U.K. London
964 Posts
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Posted: Mar 21, 2005 3:52pm
"has anyone ever been hurt by this"
not hurt badly but got a little bit of a shock!
basically, I had the thing lit infront of me, when I went to let it go, I didn't reaslize the gas had leaked up my sleve, I let go and the whole of the inside of my sleave had a big fire ball gushing through it.
from then on I have had the flame a little bit smaller which helps the flame to cut off sooner.
I still use this effect.
In Magic
Steve Dela
http://stevedela.com
Associate Member of the Inner Magic Circle
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Glenn Alloway
Regular user
Edmonton AB Canada
103 Posts
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Posted: Apr 11, 2005 2:12pm
I have been considering buying an invisotorch for some time. However, I'm not comfortable with the fact that this thing retracts so close to my body. Not having the gimick, I'm not sure of the size. Is it something that could be vanished into an appearing cane or similiar effect? I like the idea of having a large fire from the hands, but not vanishing by my hip or sleeve. Let me know your thoughts.
"This is madness and yet there is method in it." ~Shakespeare
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Daegs
Inner circle
USA
4180 Posts
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Posted: Apr 11, 2005 3:05pm
The physics are sound, if you let it go at even a medium speed, it moves fast enough that the air resistance won't allow the flame to follow the fuel source, *properly* used there is no danger with this great effect.
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BroDavid
Inner circle
America’s North Coast, Ohio
3182 Posts
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Posted: Apr 11, 2005 4:56pm
I ocassionally use inviso torches (can't spell phoenixes  ) together, but only for simultaneous two flames at once.
Filling ones clothers with gas and igniting it, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. But I have been burned badly enough (not doing magic, but as a careles inquisitive child) to have a healthy respect for the dangers involved in open fire and fabric. So it is my first hand knowledge of the pain of a severe burn that keeps me doing enoguh to wow the audience, and putting my life at risk to do it.
No applause is enough to cause me to risk serious damage. And frankly, the effect of just one unexpected blast of an inviso torch, is more than enough in most cases.
Mine has never failed to go out when released properly.
BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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Mystician
Inner circle
Wallachia
3403 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2005 9:28pm
Quote:
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On 2005-04-11 14:12, Glenn Alloway wrote:
I have been considering buying an invisotorch for some time. However, I'm not comfortable with the fact that this thing retracts so close to my body. Not having the gimick, I'm not sure of the size. Is it something that could be vanished into an appearing cane or similiar effect? I like the idea of having a large fire from the hands, but not vanishing by my hip or sleeve. Let me know your thoughts.
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It's never failed to go out on me. You needn't worry.
It won't fit inside a cane, more than likely it'll get hung up on the way in, possibly even break, which would be a problem though.
Don't try it up your sleeve for the same reason. It will fit, technically, but the issue is whether it will slide up smoothly . This is why it's best used as directed, into your coat jacket via the front.
Jim Pace knows what's he's doing when he designs these things, I have all of his fire effects currently on the market, and they're all quite safe and sound.
Mortals' minds are toys to be played with, and prey to be toyed with.
http:// www . phrets . com
Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net
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