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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts 
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Thanks Martin, discussion is something I want to get out of writing the blogs so I welcome the response
It's a touchy subject which I mostly felt was not for me to get in to. My comparison of two imp pads was about the fact that they tend to use the same type of paper to get an imp, similar to these two items. At the time, the second pad to use c*b*n paper probably looked like a copy cat. I'm not fully sure on the entire background of it but I believe the principle was used somewhere before Steam too. I don't want to take sides on it, just wanting to review it on its own merits. Sometimes though it take someone else to take a good idea and refine it and run with it. That's how apple have made some of their money. I agree that Steam could have had an influence but Steam alone would not create the Ghost pad, which is a very easy to use utility.
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts
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Hi Olympic,
I think it is massively important in our art that proper credit is given where it is due. It has dismayed me greatly to see how magic and mentalism has become an ethical and moral desert in the last few years with exposure on youtube, chinese fakes, illegal downloads etc. If you are going to set yourself up as a reviewer of effects it seems to me imperative that you give proper credit where it is due. With that in mind I do not think it is enough to say Steam could have had an influence on the Ghost pad. There is no "could have" about it. If Steam did not exist, Ghost Pad does not exist. I do not think that is a controversial position to take. It is a statement of fact. And is only just for Mr Nouira's effect to be recognised and its part in the creation of ghost pad properly acknowledged. Anyway, hope you take this reply in the spirit it is intended and I look forward to reading more of your excellent reviews. Best, Martin. |
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PRINCE Inner circle 1448 Posts
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I do agree that we should leave the opinion about the logic of handing the card back etc – this has been hammered enough and yes it is getting a bit repetitive – so lets move on. I wasn’t comparing an effect where by something is written down (ghost pad) to a effect where nothing is written down (booktest) because they are two separate premises – which you can’t compare. What you can compare which contradicts itself is saying that if you can read minds then why the need to write anything down, yet then saying by using a book to choose a word is acceptable – because why do you need to use a book if you can read minds – just let someone think of any word. The premise of these two examples are the same – if you can really read minds why the need to use props.
You said… “I get that you're happy you got one guy to back up your misgivings on this prop...but...just one is hardly condemning. It wasn't even performed on that guy! So many things wrong with relying solely on a non-participating onlooker as to 'how workable' a prop is!” Im sorry to say you really are wrong on so many levels with this one. Even one person is condemning, because that’s all it takes. Even just this one lay person had this thought process, so I would imagine there will/would be many more. It only takes one example to prove a point about how your audience think – and this was perfect. Also I really cant believe you are saying that just an on lookers opinion is not reliable – and if I have read this correctly what you are saying is this doesn’t matter but just the person performing for opinion only matters. It wouldn’t have mattered if the steward was the actual person performed to or just an onlooker – he still would have said the same comments – because its what he actually saw happen. Most of the time when performing in the real world - different settings and events whether it be stage, close up etc the majority of your audience will always be onlookers, because people will gather to watch you – and on look. As this effect is basically a one on one performance piece, then the rest of your audience are on lookers. To me, everyone’s opinion matters about how I perform and what I perform - participants and on lookers – because everyone will be talking about you and what you performed afterwards. Just for the record I'm not repeating anything reg the previous logic opinion – just now discussing further comments. |
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts
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Resist Manchurian! Resist!!!
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ManchurianMan83 Veteran user United Kingdom 305 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-05-19 15:56, Martin Pulman wrote: LOL! Hold me back!! HOLD ME BACK!! :P Actually I just wanted to chip in with the 'credit' situation and the point of 'Ghost not being made were it not for Steam'. Paul clearly states at the beginning of the Ghost DVD that the idea came to him when he saw a friend performing Steam. Ali Nouira is also credited for creating Steam within the same section of the DVD. So, I've no doubt that Ghost most likely would not exist were it not for Steam as well! Paul himself pretty much said as much. Obviously it would go without saying I like what Paul ultimately did with the pad itself (and that he can take credit for) but, for fear of making a noise again, I'll just leave it there. 
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-05-19 15:51, Martin Pulman wrote: Cheers Martin, I hope you enjoy them, I agree with crediting in magic and mentalism, but as a reviewer of products, It's not my job to do the creator's work in crediting. I did mention Steam in the review, though as I mentioned earlier, I think it's a bit of a challenging subject on this one so I was very conscious not to hang my hat anywhere and to try to call it as objectively as I could when writing. Again, I do feel that it's similar to someone having the monopoly on using c*rb*n paper to get an imp. I can't say for certain that there was any link in Ghost and Steam and chose not to speculate in my review, I just want to focus on the actual product and it's own merits or misgivings. We need to define inspiration!
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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PhilDean Elite user 445 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-05-17 09:06, ManchurianMan83 wrote: What can I say? I disagree. I think it's redundant to just say 'think of something'. There's no proof. What if they change their mind? This is the point of them drawing something in the first place that you cannot see or possibly know. And for those who took me literally and thought I was saying that you have to be claiming you have psychic powers - let me ask you this. Do you tell your audient that it's 'just a trick?' Do you chuckle knowingly after the reveal and show them saying 'look, it was just a piece of XXX paper you knuckleheads!' If you answer 'no' to this - then what the hell are you trying to achieve with this thing in the first place? |
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kellaroneil New user 66 Posts
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Wonderful product, worked right out of the box for me and performances are great! Love using my regular Sharpie with this!
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magic in mind Special user 851 Posts
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I was interested in ghost,but now a little confused.Fogive me I haven't read all 23 pages of this thread I think about a dozen then fast forward.Some comments say it uses the steam principle,now if that is so.How come the price for ghost was put high due to the fact that it took nearly two years to find a correct pen?.Thats what I read In the early pages?Surely then It can not be the same as steam as It wouldn't take two years to find said pen as there is a post in inner about the pens that steam use.I think also If you owned steam youd know what pens it uses?So it doesn't use the steam principle or Mr Nardi,didnt know what pens steam used??
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Robvs Elite user 470 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-09-04 21:06, magic in mind wrote: Hey, I think that if you don't own The Ghost, you're unlikely to find replies which shed light on some of your questions regarding the specifics of the equipment. I would also like to humbly suggest that you're very careful about how much more you reveal about the equipment/principals of each of the effects you named. I learned the hard way that these effects are held very close to magicians, trying even harder than usual to preserve the secret. My advice to you is that if like the way The Ghost appears, buy it. It's wonderful. The answer to your question shouldn't even make a difference in deciding to purchase. It's more of a fishing question (maybe unintentionally) than anything else. Maybe a better question would have been "Will I have a hard time finding replacement equipment." Otherwise, you can achieve very similar effects using the system/principals you already know from the other effect that you seemingly "own." |
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Fire Starter Inner circle 4810 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-09-04 21:06, magic in mind wrote: I would advise NOT to skim over what you have read,read it all in FULL, it is a well worth read and one can learn a lot and get all the fact's and as said very protected secret,well we all try to ,have fun and all the best. Shane |
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magic in mind Special user 851 Posts
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Robvs what are you on about fishing?.Been on this Café 8 years not 6 months like yourself.Yes I only have 500 posts in that time.As I don't ramble on in every thread going.
I'm 47 not a you tube kid .If I wanted to know how something works. I would ask,someone that ive shared ideas for 25 years how it works.The whole point of my post as by the way I have steam.Mr Nardi said ghost was priced so high because of the R+D citing 2 years to find pen???.I therefore think its odd if it is steam why It would take two years to find the correct pen?.Odd don't you think?.Considering how many posts in inner thoughts on best pen for steam.Now do you get my post.by the way you can get steam for 21.99 in the uk from full 52.Everywhere else in the uk has sold out,since this debate started |
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magic in mind Special user 851 Posts
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Pheeww nice to let off a little steam.
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10798 Posts
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Can we just stop talking about steam please 😃
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-09-05 15:49, magic in mind wrote: What? They finally added the Joker?
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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Robvs Elite user 470 Posts
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It's absurd that more than one of my posts disappeared in this thread but the antagonistic ramblings of a madman were allowed to stay.
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10798 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-09-06 15:42, Robvs wrote: I would be cautious about the personal remarks as that sometimes means getting booted from here - just sayin.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts
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What he says.
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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max88 Loyal user 280 Posts
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Can I ask after performance can I handout the pad to others to check or not?
I suppose the answer is no. But better to be sure in case some alternative way can be done for handout clean maybe. Thanks. |
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ManchurianMan83 Veteran user United Kingdom 305 Posts
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Like any magic prop it can't be scrutinized in any great depth but I will say this...
Firstly, when I recieved mine, I was fiddling around with the pad before watching the DVD and was confused...because it just looked like a pad. So I didn't find it myself, It took watching the DVD to work out it wasn't just a normal pad they'd sent me lol! Secondly, one performance I actually had it on the table after performing with it and the girl I performed it on picked it up, looked at it (of course I was internally panicking) but she didn't find it either and just put it back down and went back to presuming black magic. So, my answer would be...you CAN but be aware it IS a prop at the end of the day and there IS something to be found if they dig around enough. But if you ask me, it takes some finding. |
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Posted: May 19, 2013 07:27 pm 
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