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eatonmagic Special user Orlando, FL 737 Posts 
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On 2013-12-24 00:54, Dannydoyle wrote: I'm not sure what the amount is but I would tell someone to think of a number and then DOUBLE it! Wait a sec…where have I heard that before? LOL. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Yes sir at least double it. It is why they watch every penny.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Rocky Elite user 486 Posts
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Restaurants are a darn tough one. Yet everyone knows how to run them. Thousands go out of business every year. Every one of them knew what they were doing. Or so they thought. I sometimes feel that Mr. Doyle can be harsh in posting his opinions, but in retrospect he speaks his mind and is willing to view others opinions with respect, even if he isn't in agreement. What he says regarding the risk in running a restaurant is true. There is no guaranteed formula for success and the stress of managing a staff of sometimes close to 100 people, balancing the books, and dealing with a finicky customer base can drive some people to the brink of insanity. Putting another person (ie magician) on "staff" and paying them the $250.00 a night that many ask for in return for their services can be another potential headache for a restaurant owner. I have said this before...very few restaurants employ a tableside magician based on the fact that they are not a necessary component to keep the business functioning. Less than 1% of restaurants nationwide provide ANY type of dining entertainment and this is for a reason. Regardless of your perception on how much a tableside magician can add to the success of a restaurant, it is not anywhere near the top of any priority list an owner or manager creates to keep the place in business. Magicians are a sensitive sort and may feel offended when their services are not utilized by the local eatery. Those who are lucky enough to share their talents as restaurant magicians sometimes can lead the masses into believing that this type of venue is wide open for aspiring close up magicians. It isn't. There will be the exceptions, of course, but they are few and far between. My point is this...if you are seriously looking for an audience to share your magic with outside of family and fellow magicians on top of expecting to be paid in return, a restaurant is the last place you should seek out. You have a better chance of getting gigs by hiring a talent agency to find you work. On a final note...a personal pet peeve regarding the attitude of many employed restaurant magicians I have is their perception towards performing for children. Some feel that performing for kids is below them. I don't care how expensive your suit is or how talented you are with sleight of hand, the general public connects magicians with being children's entertainers. If you do get a restaurant gig, be prepared to perform for kids. Adults have a much better time watching their kids be entertained than watching a signed card jump to the top of the deck 20 times. In the rare times I have spoken with restaurant owners who would consider entertainment, the majority would choose a clown doing balloon animals over a magician. I would be willing to bet if more magicians did a trick at a table that strictly played to the kids and followed up with a balloon animal or other kid friendly souvenier, there would be a better chance of getting the gig than handing a signed playing card to an adult spectator who will supposedly keep it in their wallet for the next 30 years. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts
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On a final note...a personal pet peeve regarding the attitude of many employed restaurant magicians I have is their perception towards performing for children. Some feel that performing for kids is below them. I don't care how expensive your suit is or how talented you are with sleight of hand, the general public connects magicians with being children's entertainers. If you do get a restaurant gig, be prepared to perform for kids. Adults have a much better time watching their kids be entertained than watching a signed card jump to the top of the deck 20 times. In the rare times I have spoken with restaurant owners who would consider entertainment, the majority would choose a clown doing balloon animals over a magician. I would be willing to bet if more magicians did a trick at a table that strictly played to the kids and followed up with a balloon animal or other kid friendly souvenier, there would be a better chance of getting the gig than handing a signed playing card to an adult spectator who will supposedly keep it in their wallet for the next 30 years. Bingo. It's why I make sure I am able to entertain BOTH kids and adults at the restaurants I have worked. I use entertaining kids as one of selling points when I make a cold call approach to a restaurant manager or owner. I also talk about the importance of keeping guests entertained during long waits and when the kitchen is backed up. Many of the staff are happy to see me come during busy times and you will earn your check because you will be working. I certainly don't charge $250 as I feel this is too costly to the restaurant and most restaurants would be unwilling to pay this high of a fee. In any business, you have to offer a quality service at a reasonable cost that the customer is willing to pay and still be able to turn a profit. You learn to appreciate the true value of a dollar after paying all kinds of taxes, business licensing fees, overhead costs, keeping the customer happy and working your butt off and finally turning a profit. If you start asking for too much money, you will price yourself out of business. I conducted several surveys as well of various customers in different target markets to see what they would be willing to pay for different kinds of magical entertainment. This gives me an idea of what I can charge in specific markets and I also want to be sure to keep overhead cost down so that I still turn a profit. Surveys are also important in gauging customer satisfaction and what the customer wants. People buy what they want and in many cases they don't buy what they need. But you got to know what the customer wants first so surveys are important in helping to find out. Magic is a business like any other. One of the reasons why people spend their dollar is to have fun, so I strive to make my magic fun and entertaining. I bring tricks that are exclusively for children and I also bring tricks that adults enjoy when I perform at my restaurant gig. My goal is to have both the children enjoying the magic and the adults amazed and entertained as well. I want the adults to be happy to see their children entertained too. If they are I will ask them to tell the management if they enjoyed the magic. That will hopefully keep me working for the restaurant, but as with any work, their is no guaranteed job security just like their is no guarantee on return on investment.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
Company Website Facebook Business Page Twitter Business Page |
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Tim Friday Elite user 485 Posts
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On 2013-12-24 14:00, Rocky wrote: Rocky, yes, most likely the majority of restaurant owners do not see the value of having entertainment and especially a magician since so few are familiar with the concept of having a restaurant magician. For these owners the restaurant magician must say thanks for shooting straight with me and move on. The rejection is a positive because that magician no longer needs to spend their time and efforts on that restaurant or trying to contact that owner. Here's the good news: there will always be some restaurant owners who do see the value of entertainment and especially a magician. They believe in the value so much they are willing to pay for it. These are the restaurants the magician must find. Find the good ones, shake the dust off your feet of the ones who "don't get it" and no hard feelings. |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts
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Interesting conversation. I won't speak to every bias and theory spouted here. I can only speak to my personal experience.
While I'm capable of strong comedy bar magic, my specialty is kid's magic. I currently work five quality restaurants (four chains and one privately owned) five evenings each week. I've been at my Tuesday gig for ten years as of this January. The others are two years and up. I have four country clubs that hire me regularly for Saturday and Sunday brunches. My magic is focused on the kids, but my humor and effects also appeal to the adults. My personality and the bond I create with the families combined with the quality food and service brings them back. I have no doubt that my restaurant tonight will be filled with families bringing out-of-town relatives and friends to meet me. This is what makes my character attractive to my managers and owners. I work for $125 for two hours - and I stay until the last child or interested adult is entertained, so I'm often on site for an extra compilmentary hour. This is my personal work ethic. Not the manager's requirement. I believe in giving more than expected. I genuinely enjoy visiting with these families. My profit comes from the vast number of private, commercial, school, and corporate gigs I book at full rate from these families. My schedule is full, and I don't have to spend beau coup time and money on marketing. I perform family-friendly close-up and parlor magic - generally 2 effects per table. I always carry my sponge bunnies - George and Gracie - and they are my most requested bit - even by kids and adults who have seen it over and over again. I follow the magic with simple 2 & 3 balloon sculptures built around comedy and touchstone routines. All of my managers and owners saw me performing at another venue and hired me - I didn't seek them out. Clearly they saw value in having me as part of their staff. I make no promises beyond sharing fun and laughter with their guests. Rocky doesn't believe we can succeed as Ambassadors of our restaurants. I say that is exactly what we are. Our sole job is to create a unique, magic moment that encourages guests to talk about us and return with friends in tow. What is that if not an ambassador? It all comes down to personality. I'm not a $1000 an hour traveling stage performer. I'm very happy staying within a few hours of home and working local gigs. I love what I do and I make a very good full time living doing it on my terms. I've made life long friends with many of my patrons. This may not work for everyone, but it certainly works well for me.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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55Hudson Special user Minneapolis 984 Posts
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Nice post, Skip. It isn't often someone can look at their full-time job and say, "I like what I do and I do it on my terms". Congratulations on a successful approach to magic!
Hudson |
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Mark Boody Illusionist Inner circle 1367 Posts
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This has been one of BEST threads I have ever read on The Café...period. I say Thank You to each and everyone who has contributed to it!
Mark
Only he who can see the invisible can do the impossible. Frank L. Gaines
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Mike Ince Inner circle 2041 Posts
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The prospect of restaurant magic is unappetizing. I don't miss it. This thread confirms why it's distasteful. I don't like being interrupted while I eat, and I don't like being treated as an annoyance by people who are enjoying their conversations. Unfortunately there's rarely a proper space to perform in, even in a waiting area where at least part of your audience will leave as soon as a table frees up. Basically, I didn't become an entertainer to be a side dish... I like being the main course. I could have 9 appreciative tables but the 10th group of jerks makes the experience rotten.
It's hard to justify a decent wage for entertainment to a manager or owner who pays minimum wage to kitchen staff. Performing at a bar to keep people drinking is easier to sell to management but the trade-off is working with the ugly, drunken side of some people more often than usual. Keep your restaurant gig. I'll perform for people who intended to see a show.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2393 Posts
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Mike, I understand your point. I find doing magic at cocktail parties distasteful for the same reason you just mentioned, but I think there are two exceptions in restaurants.
1. Some restaurants have it set up so that you only perform at someone’s table if they invite you to. 2. When performing at tables where children are present. In both cases magic is not an interruption, it is very much appreciated. In fact I’ve been asked at tables with children if I can stay all night! Restaurants that can support a magician are rare, but they are out there and can be very enjoyable work.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Mike Ince Inner circle 2041 Posts
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Valid points, Ken. The final nail for me is that I prefer to perform for grown-ups. If magic were my full-time gig I'm sure I'd feel differently.
Since I do mind reading shows now I never get asked, "Do you do children's parties?" Telepathy makes them just uneasy enough for them to think, "maybe I don't want this guy hacking into my children's heads." Since I first worked at a magic store at 15 years of age I never intended to be a children's performer. I wanted adults to appreciate the kind of magic I appreciated. Children experience wonder all the time. Why let them have all the fun? I found a kind of performance that makes adults feel like children again. It looks real, feels real, and sometimes I demonstrate real skills. if I can find a restaurant with mainly adult patrons I might take another stab at it.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
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eatonmagic Special user Orlando, FL 737 Posts
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Not sure about you guys who are doing it either the hard way or the wrong way, but the bottom line is that WHEN DONE CORRECTLY, the magic CAN have a positive impact on the bottom line of a restaurant's business. And again, try not to look as it as just card tricks. When you do that, your restaurants will more than likely do the same. Try and find a way that you can not only change the perception of the way magic is viewed by the public, but also the way it's perceived by the owners and management. Create ways to work with the staff and give them a reason to bring you over. Find a way to help push certain foods and/or drink specials.
It seems like everyone wants to go in and just do card tricks but if you give more value, you see more impact in return! It's ultimately up to you present yourself how you want. Here is something I haven't shared with anyone here but I believe it will help show you how, when done right, the magic can have a positive effect on a business. Even a very elegant, fine dining establishment such as this one. At the time of filming this, it was Del Frisco's Steak & Lobster, which, if any of you are aware of, is one of the nicest restaurants in Orlando. Here is the owner and servers sharing some of their thoughts on how they feel about the magic 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbgXG5N6MIo |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts
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On 2013-12-26 15:46, Ken Northridge wrote: There are adults who really enjoy magic, but I think eatonmagic makes a great point when he says "read, relate and repoire (however you spell it)." Read the table before approaching. You can usually tell if it is OK to approach a table by the facial expressions, body language or if the table is in deep conversation and doesn't seem to want to be interrupted or not. So, when I feel it's OK to approach, I just simply introduce myself, tell them what I do for the restaurant and ask them if they would like to see something really amazing. If they turn me down, it's no big deal, I just thank them for coming to the restaurant and tell them to have a wonderful evening and move on to the next table that would seem to want to see some magic. I also make it a point to visit tables with kids and entertain the kids as well as the whole family seated at the table. But I also have great fun entertaining folks at the bar as well who are sitting and having a few drinks. I personally accept tips when I work, but I don't solicit for any tips. The folks at the bar, IF you do a good job with your magic, tip quite well. But you have to earn it and do a good job and really amaze them with some cool magic. Parents also tip well when they see you do a good job of entertaining their kids, which in my opinion, entertaining children and entertaining adults require two different skill sets and it helps to know them both for the restaurant environment.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
Company Website Facebook Business Page Twitter Business Page |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2393 Posts
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^Oh, yes. It can be done. I was just responding to Mike’s post. In the two cases I’ve listed magic is almost never an interruption. There’s only been a few cases when parents did not welcome me. With adults that are NOT expecting a magic show at their private table it does take some skill and personality.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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trickychaz Special user West Virginia 549 Posts
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It's about cross marketing...lots of business engage in cross marketing. just ask if they do, and then present the manager with your offer.
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts
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Perfect example - The home office of my favorite restaurant declared Chapter 11 last week and I've had two calls today from other restaurant managers wanting to know if I'm going to be available soon. Word of Mouth is everything in this business!
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Redfoot New user 67 Posts
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Can I just chip in here? Speaking from the UK this is a completely foreign concept and I've never experienced any restaurant that employs a magician. It's just not the way it works over here. As amazing as it would be, I cannot even imagine a situation in which a client books a table at my place and then a guy comes over and starts performing unexpectedly. Personally, I'd love to see this in an environment it is accepted. I'd also love to see how the dynamic is handled in the UK. This topic is hugely interesting to me as manager of a restaurant as I'm always looking to maximise profit, but OP's original point about running a restaurant as a restaurant and not a magic venue holds fast in my opinion. Magic would certainly compliment, but if it is super successful then people come back for the magic and not for the food or atmosphere of your venue. In that situation the manager and owner both need to question their job. Customers returning for the entertainment instead of what the restaurant offers food/drink-wise are returning to the venue for the wrong reason.
Again, this is a foreign concept to me as "table hoppers & party strollers" just don't exist over here as it's an entirely different demographic. Table hoppers especially. Entertainers at a private party are a different concept. As manager of a restaurant I have never even considered employing a magician as entertainment, simply because it is such a peculiar concept. I'm almost entirely sure this is because I've never experienced it myself so would not know how my clients would react, and also because I'd be worried about these uptight English people not accepting some random dude coming up to them and flashing cards in their face while they wait for their food. I wish I could be the one performing instead of managing, but it just don't think it will work like that that here. I'll be honest, because of the enormous posts: tl;dr about 25%, but I'm definitely in the picture. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts
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I have performed for people who were fresh from the UK and Europe over here who were visiting the US and they stopped by the restaurants I work to grab a bite to eat. Generally, a good professional restaurant magician will do the the three "Rs" as taught by Eatonmagic. Read, Relate and Rapport. Read a table before making an approach. If after reading the table (facial expressions, body language and if the table is in deep conversation or a couple in deep conversation, things of that nature), you deem it safe to approach the table (meaning you won't be interrupting anybody or you won't be approaching a table that does not want to be approached) then you always smile, introduce yourself, tell the guests what you do for the restaurant and ask them how are they doing and find something you have in common with the guests and seize on that in conversation to relate to the guests and develop a rapport. Once you get a rapport you could ask them if they would like to see some magic. If their is kids at the table, ask the adults if they wouldn't mind you showing the kids some magic tricks. Usually they will say yes because the kids will want to see magic and you could end up amazing and entertaining the whole table, including the adults and kids have a big influence on the dining decisions of adults. If the guests approve you go into your opener, then flow through to your middle and finish with a good closer that leaves them amazed and wanting more. Some of the European guests I have entertained don't seem to have seen a restaurant magician before and they assume I am working for tips. Generally, I will tell any guest who thinks I work for tips that I do not work for tips and that the restaurant pays me. However, if they insist on tipping me, I accept the tip so that the guest does not feel insulted. But I feel it's important that guests do not feel obligated to tip me. Not to mention, you have the wait staff working for tips anyway.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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RajeshLGov Regular user India 149 Posts
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I personally would prefer doing "NOTHING" than doing a free restaurant work.
The fact is restaurants are doing their business "quality food", the magician or any other entertainer is there to enhance the experience n make the clientele regulars. I do feel that a Ventriloquist/Mimicry artist/Juggler can do a good job too in restaurant too, particularly in the waiting area. Mr. Rocky it is not that Magicians don't get work anywhere else so they r coercing themselves on unsuspecting diners. Most magicians make money doing Birthday parties n corporate walk around than restaurants. I really feel you r too generous to woo magicians with a free meal  otherwise they might starve to death God Bless u.
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Tim Friday Elite user 485 Posts
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On Jan 7, 2014, Redfoot wrote: I thought that Mark James worked restaurants in the UK? At least his 'Super Charged' DVDs seem to be about restaurant magic based on a review I saw on Reel Magic... |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » The restaurant magician debate (16 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Dec 24, 2013 06:53 am 
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