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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Great points, David. Though I don't have much truck for the "branding" stuff, but I think entertainers should have unique, memorable names, with unique, memorable acts. I just don't think an entertainer can be a "brand", unless they start selling perfume or something.
For me, this is a buzzword that doesn't really make sense in our line of work. I don't agree that Bill Cosby is "a brand", I bet there's not a single fan of his who thinks of him as such. Apart from, perhaps, other entertainers, who've been impressed with this "branding" nonsense. The whole concept of "branding" as an entertainer seems to me, to be the very opposite of what we're trying to achieve. A "brand" is a standard product, which is recognised by it's marketing, and which is identical to "non-branded goods", with the only exception, that it has a reputation for being reliable. Whereas a performer, surely, wants to be unique, original, unlike any other. Not just a "brand" of entertainer, like a "brand" of beer, or a "brand" of chocolate. The term "brand" pretty much means the product has some back-up. Yeah, that's OK. But a great entertainer should aim for much, much more than just that. "Brand" implies there's plenty of it available. A good entertainer should imply that there is only ONE available. To think of yourself as a "brand", is to become the kind of performer who thinks he can train a bunch of amateurs to perform his act, and hopefully make a fast buck. If you have the word "branding" in your mindset, I highly recommend you ditch it quick, before you lose yourself to your own ego. On another tack: a very strong tactic in presenting yourself as a consumate professional, is to happily recommend other good entertainers, when you can't attend a particular event. I have a very short list of entertainers that I recommend. Unfortunately, there aren't too many in my area that I consider to be of a high enough standard. But, when a client calls, and clearly has specific needs, even though I can't help them myself, I'll ask about the event, and determine whether or not there's someone else I can suggest. This is what I consider good "customer service". Callers are, frankly, taken aback by this approach, although admittedly, some actually ask if you can recommend someone else. Potty |
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magicofCurtis Inner circle Los Angeles 2545 Posts |
Negotiating and haggling are two different aspects! Learn to identify the difference and see a huge increase in sales/gigs!
Curtis Lovell II
http://www.CurtisLovell.com http://www.MagicofCurtis.com www.facebook.com/curtislovellii Los Angeles, California - U.S.A. |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
I highly disagree with you Potty. Branding yourself, to me, is the way to stand out in the marketplace. And, it is important for being memorable. Being a brand doesn't mean a product has "some back up". It means that the product has an identifiable image, induces feelings or memories, and is a symbol for a certain message. Bill Cosby most definitely IS his brand.
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-03-04 16:30, Close.Up.Dave wrote: What a load of nonsense! Think of brands that mean something to you.....are there any entertainers who you think of as a "brand"? More specifically, can you name any magicians who have a "brand"? The term implies that anything with the brand-name attached should be highly regarded, it's quite specifically a way to endorse anything which is branded, implying multiples, not specifics. "There are many things which might have this brand, and here's one example of our brand." If you want to be part of a "brand", kudos to ya. But you will never be a unique entertainer, if that's your approach. The whole concept of "branding" for entertainers is an amateurs' desperate attempt to make himself feel more important than he is. If you don't accept that, you need to go back and learn to get work, like all the other guys do. And, if your favourite flavour-of-the-month entertainer tells you it's so, ask for his latest income-tax return. I can guarantee that no-one can realistically work with this nonsense. Your fave entertainer probably doesn't even make a return. Go figure! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
I will only share the following. Many seem.to misuse the term "brand".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-03-04 17:31, Dannydoyle wrote: I agree Danny. I'm not advocating any of the guru nonsense. Simply stating what branding is actually for. Quote:
On 2013-03-04 17:11, Potty the Pirate wrote: I think you simply misunderstand how marketers (real world firms) actually use branding. Branding does not mean a group of products lumped together under a common company name, in which the name holds some sort of level of prestige (and therefore implies the products have value). Branding is any aspect that contributes to telling the story of the product or service that people are looking at. Here is Seth Godin's example" http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/......and.html Apple Computers are a brand. Their logo is an Apple (not a computer or anything), which is a symbol for knowledge. The way their ads are structured have a lot of white space and indicate a blank canvas for your mind. The user friendly, creative elements are the story of their brand. It stands the test of time because their product is actually good (I don't own apple products, but they are good). Criss Angel is a perfect example of a branded performer. He, as a person, has a definitive look that implies a rock star persona with a dark over-tone. His logo is an anarchy type symbol, which is reflective of the experience he provides. He provides entertainment for a niche audience, both through television and celebrity type parties. Quote:
On 2013-03-04 17:11, Potty the Pirate wrote: If all the performer puts into his career is the branding, and doesn't have the sales experience, then yes they won't have a return. There's only so much branding one can do without actually going out to get the work & tell the story they've worked hard to create into a brand. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-03-04 15:57, Potty the Pirate wrote: Well said Potty. (standing ovation) We all must step out of the box if we want to be noticed. Customers get tired of the same over and over again. I can tell you perform your talent above most in your area. Not just because the excellent clippings in your video, but because of the way you word your post. Some magicians would rather just copy off others. They are not going to get anywhere going that direction. It takes a lot of creativity to be put on the highest level, the same level you are on matey. "Make a Million". |
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Paddy Inner circle Milford OH 1571 Posts |
Seems to me that by "branding" yourself what you are actually doing is standing out in a crowd of entertainers. Hey, those are fords & chevys but I am the Rolls Royce (Mike you're in Detroit so it's Cadillac for you) of the group. The others will have a routine, but I give you a SHOW! That's what branding oneself means to me.
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Potty: When I refer to a "brand" I AM talking about a UNIQUE memorable name with a unique memorable act. That's what "branding" is.
Coke is a brand. Pepsi is a brand. Coke and Pepsi are not the SAME brand...although they are both sodas. But you feel free to call it whatever you like. I use the term "brand" to mean "one-of-a-kind." To stand out, a performer HAS to be different. THAT was my statement. I'm not going to argue semantics. Frankly I found your response to Close Up Dave borderline offensive. You may want to relax and read what people say before you go off on them, Potty. He was making perfect sense. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
What happens when you try to brand yourself as unique and one of a kind (Which is painfully redundant.) and then you show up doing exactly the same thing as everyone else?
Here is a hint. You are BRANDED in the mind of your customer. Branding happens on many more levels than most think. David and potty understand. Lets be honest guys. You are making comparisons to billion dollar companies and the guy who shows up for a birthday party for a kid. Best branding is to entertain the kids.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Okay. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
We tell a story whether we mean to or not. Good customer experience is a must, the rest is reflecting your personality and promo material design. My point isn't to compare us to the highly successful cases, but to the effective and known examples.
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magicofCurtis Inner circle Los Angeles 2545 Posts |
I think branding can my applied in different formats in a variety of industries like many other words have been utilized.
Curtis Lovell II
http://www.CurtisLovell.com http://www.MagicofCurtis.com www.facebook.com/curtislovellii Los Angeles, California - U.S.A. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
Words mean things and it is important to use the agreed upon definitions. Not make up easier ones.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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magicofCurtis Inner circle Los Angeles 2545 Posts |
Yes, but I do think many entertainers have branded themselves....
Danny, if it is not branding, what would you call it or what word would you use?
Curtis Lovell II
http://www.CurtisLovell.com http://www.MagicofCurtis.com www.facebook.com/curtislovellii Los Angeles, California - U.S.A. |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Could "differentiation" be a better term for the sake of conversation?
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-03-04 19:11, Paddy wrote: Yes you are the Rolls Royce to riding turtles... http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5973795 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5892830 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5870125 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5494913 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5392146 Why don't you try doing a show at least? |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
Very interesting discussion here(at least for me). After reading the posts and then doing some internet research, it seems to me that Potty and some others are viewing "brand" as defined in a dictionary, which refers to more the signs and symbols, rather than what is discussed as "brand" in marketing terms, which seems to refer to "brand" in much broader terms to include all the components that are at the core of the products creation and development.
Danny said "Best brand is to entertain the kids". I think I understand what he is saying ("enough with all the marketing, how about having a really good show"), but I believe it is too simplistic. I see many different "brands" expressed here on TMC. For example: some are a bit more edgy, in that they include balloon swallowing in shows as a feature. Other entertainers use fire in kids shows. Some use diapers. Some avoid anything remotely offensive or dangerous. Some performers focus on miracles, while others focus on comedy. Some offer balloon creations, games, puppets and singing. Soem have contracts while others believe in less formal agreements. Some have straight forward pricing, others negotiate each gig itself. Regardless of the term, I believe the image you are trying to create should be considered, and your actions should reflect that. These differences matter, and differentiate us. So, even if your act is the same as someone else, yet you are perceived to be easier to work with and more dependable, then you have still created a different image or "brand" in the customers mind. |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
I'm just trying to think of what clients perceive as a "brand". I can't think of any specific entertainers that would fit this description. I bet not a single one of his clients think of Criss Angel as a "brand". But companies like Disney, Marvel Comics, and DreamWorks are "brands".
Sure, if a client books a "Disney entertainer", or "Marvel Entertainer", they probably have certain expectations. They might presume that the entertainer provided has adequate training, is licensed to use copyrighted costumes and characters, is employed by a corporation, and therefore carries insurance, and has had background checks, etc. It would also be reasonable to assume that such a performer would be of a certain standard. But, the actual performer would be almost irrelevant, as the company he works for, the "brand", would be what the client is interested in. I also know of one or two agencies in the UK, who train up magicians and other entertainers, and have them all work under the same name. I guess this is a kind of "branding". Although, in these instances, I've heard really bad things about the variable quality of performance. Clients aren't told who will be attending their event, it will just be one of a variety of entertainers, with no guarantees. How can you be a "brand" when you're a solo entertainer? It just doesn't make sense. It certainly doesn't say "unique" to me, quite the opposite. As I said, it's just a buzzword, which some performers use to sound important. And a way to skirt the important issues of quality and experience. Come up with a clever logo, a slogan, and an unusual approach, and you can ignore everything else. Performers have always known these basic things, it's nothing new. What is new, is to claim to be a "brand", in the vague hope that it somehow elevates you above any other performer. It makes no difference at all. You can either cut the mustard, or you can't. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
Charlie. Keep it simple
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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