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Michael Daniels Inner circle Isle of Man 1609 Posts 
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On 2013-03-14 09:09, Dr Spektor wrote: I agree (at least with the first part of the sentence). The problem, of course, is that this can't be addressed in purely abstract terms because the issue has profoundly significant real-world implications that directly affect people's lives and livelihoods. Whenever anyone (such as Dan, Andrew, myself and others) try to address actual concrete situations, it seems to me that the relative clarity and certainty of Glenn's abstract position starts to get very weak, muddled, contradictory, and uncertain. Mike |
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writeall Special user Midland, Michigan 930 Posts
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It's difficult to know if Dan's Youtube freebie harms Blue Crown. For example, Blue Crown sends out marketing materials; they may reach a different audience. And there's no way to know that the Youtube watchers would have purchased instead.
I do think the perception is there though and one result is trying to market tricks that have gimmicks or supplies included instead of just information. I'd expect this to increase, as well as limited releases or "special club" formats with attemtps to keep things secret as part of the offering. In the end, the reaction to percieved harm can have the opposite effect from the intended. Instead of moving toward more free market competition, the whole marketplace gets more restrictive. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 08:27, Stucky wrote: "How do you upgrade a mac? Throw it away and buy a new one!" LOL, so true.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 09:09, Dr Spektor wrote: Thank you. Although I hold no presumption that torrent users are like that writ large. "There is a way out of this.... But I won't say until page 20 (at least)" Brilliant! Quote:
On 2013-03-14 09:27, Michael Daniels wrote: I would disagree, and I would largely point to the magic industry itself, which (outside of copyright of just the medium in which the ideas are conveyed, not the actual ideas and secrets themselves, which still doesn't prevent copying) is really a free market, and magic, even as a niche market, is actually thriving. Also, that's despite of an inherent attitude within the magic industry to keep it small and exclusive with secrets. Real world, concrete example of how things thrive, and people profit, WITHOUT An article which addresses the incompatibility of IP with a free market, and also touches on Bitcoin, which has it's own applications for IP, as well as "encryption.*" http://c4sif.org/2012/10/forbes-on-viagr......roperty/ *Bitcoins basically cannot be counterfeited. That perhaps has implications for technology possibly limiting reproduciblity of information. Of course, if you can play a video on your computer, whether you can directly copy the file or not, you CAN capture it while it plays, which, while initially more difficult, does not eliminate all possibility to duplicate. People take pictures and scans of every page, front and back, of books in order to share them. That's a decent amount of effort just to make and share copies of something they themselves spent money on.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 09:37, writeall wrote: Yup, such "exposure" really acts as exposure for the original distributors, and can be great for marketing and publicity. As for moving into more "prop" oriented releases, and restrictions, you might think that in magic, except we can objectively see the exact opposite. Instant downloads and streaming information only releases are the dominant products in the market. Just look at Dan and Dave's On Demand, Theory 11 One on Ones and The Wire, Ellusionist downloads, ets. Look a the majority of E's best sellers: http://www.ellusionist.com/learn-now/bestsellers Not to mention The Blue Crown, who, beside their decks and accessories, has, what, I believe ONE prop/gimmick based release, Captain and Coke. Everything else is dvds and downloads. There is a literal plethora of information based released, and largely being made available more and more online, over DVDs, if not both. It's clear that the reality is exactly the opposite of what you would think, with focus more on information over apparatus, becoming more affordable, and, rather than more restrictive, a more open and free market as a result of the democratization of magic via technology. This is absolutely fantastic for magic as a market, with more choice, and magic as an art, which would bring me right back to PressPausePlay (just realised I was mixing the title up) which is about just this with regards to art and media in general. It's not so much about IP as it is about what is happening in art and media because of democratization via technology. It's a fantastic documentary. That reminds me, I still need to watch that video game documentary Mayhew recommended to me.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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No, I'm sorry, Blue Crown has about three or so other products which include gimmicks which are not things you could find, or make, around the home, or are routines with gaffs you probably already have, like IT, TT, DB, Mismade Bill, etc, so they are still just selling you the information/routine.
Still the super majority of magic products/effects from them are still information based.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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The idea that modern file sharing is harming music industry sales is also clearly shown to patently false:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/12-extrem......ular-mus It's also fuelled by the "remix." #EverythingIsARemix http://www.cracked.com/article_18500_the......rds.html One could suggest that, artistically, the music industry has devolved, as with what the first link is trying to point (while inadvertently pointing out the insane levels of modern music sales) however the arguably "artistically devoid" nature of popular music can be shown to be a clear result of IP law, given that music "studios" have, for a while, had a virtual oligopoly on music production and release. This centralization of music production and distribution has produced pop music which is scientifically shown to be "too loud and all sounds the same." IP law is RESPONSIBLE for the homogenization of popular music. Since these studios held basically centralized control over what music gets produced, and what music is heard, the alternatives go largely "undiscovered." Again, the democratization that technology is providing by virtually decimating the efficacy of IP law, which is allowing EVERYONE to have a voice, and a song. So now the unknown artists can have access to a much wider market of potential listeners and customers, thus increasing "potential future sales," again, the exact opposite of the contentious claims and predictions. This is allowing the more artistically inclined musicians, authors, performers, artists, etc, to have a more equal chance at exposure, and thus a livelihood. Again, see PressPausePlay, the freedom of content in pod-casting, and the ever growing market of YouTube shows. Psy might be considered by some to be an anomaly, making millions off of YouTube, but the top grossing YouTubers are all making over 6 figures. Also, that's just YouTube. There are also shows like Brian's on Revision 3, (hey look, full circle,) and other shows and Internet Television Networks. It's becoming INCREDIBLY lucrative, and liberating for artists, and people who work in the arts and media "industries" like myself, and Andrew, whether he sees it or not; It's there if we are open to it, and it gives us far MORE artistic integrity, marketability, and YES, monetizability.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Trent Reznor's "free" album became the BEST seller on Amazon in 2008:
"Unsurprisingly, this incident would mark the official end of Trent Reznor's involvement with Universal Records. So, hey, the label totally showed him! Where are you going to sell your music now, Angst Boy? Reznor's answer to that question that we just made up was to release his next album, Ghosts I-IV, on his own label and give fans the option of downloading it for free or paying for it. And because there isn't a single person on the planet who doesn't want to screw over a record company executive in some way, Reznor's fans responded by making it one of the biggest moneymakers of the year anyway, raking in $1.6 million in sales for Reznor's newly formed Null Corporation label in a single week." http://www.cracked.com/article_19647_the......NWoFAAqB http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/trent-r......ler-2008 Even more on how the current system is producing ridiculously over priced albums, and the ARTISTS are reacting against that, and producing more affordable, and more profitable, music while also making it free of ridiculous IP "protection." http://www.zeropaid.com/news/8768/trent_......l_music/ THAT'S the power of the market, and freedom.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3017 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 04:49, Stucky wrote: I assume you mean me. If you'd prefer to discuss it with someone uneducated in this field, I guess that's your loss. I'll try to avoid bringing real world experience to the table from here on out. Wouldn't want to spoil your fun.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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BatsMagic Inner circle New York 1052 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 11:32, gdw wrote: I remember when CD's first came out there was a claim that they would eventually cost about $5. That never happened. |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts
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What were we talking about again?
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BatsMagic Inner circle New York 1052 Posts
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Rocky Horror Show, I think.
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 12:59, BatsMagic wrote: Yo, ALIEN!!!!! |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 12:39, Andrew Zuber wrote: Don't worry Andrew, there's still me for someone working, and educated, in this field to point to objective reality for how I'm talking about unequivocally works, and is working far BETTER than those struggling to work within the current IP system. :D
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 12:59, BatsMagic wrote: EDDIE!!! 
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts
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20, here we come!
I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it. I'm about to lose control and I think I like it.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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BatsMagic Inner circle New York 1052 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 13:16, tomsk192 wrote: Hot patootie, bless my soul, I really love that Rock n' Roll! |
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BatsMagic Inner circle New York 1052 Posts
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So, really- has anyone here actually ordered this?
If I was a working Pro I would have done it, despite all of the negativity that has been expressed here, including from me. As someone who does have 2 different yearly gigs (In September and January), and some other paying jobs on occasion, it's not worth it for me. But "Glance" knocked them dead for me 5 weeks ago (Hey- the January shows were pushed back because of a snowstorm!), I would be interested in other book tests to get a similar result. Harry Potter would go over very well at one of them for sure. $100 is the absolute maximum that I would pay for a trick, though. And even then I would have to sleep on; baby, baby let me sleep on it. Who here has this on order? |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2013-03-14 14:09, BatsMagic wrote: OF COURSE no one has ordered it yet. Actually, I'm sure SOME will order it, and use it. Even if people don't like BB's handling of this, presentationaly, I imagine it would be beyond easy to work with some other presentation to get around the animal gag. Personally, I enjoy the animal gag, and it can be a clever way to get information, BUT it can't just be dismissed and run over after moving onto writing something else. You almost need to be able to, almost immediately, turn the page over and show the word or something. If done with a smaller paper/pad, an NW would be the obvious solution. Unlike common NW applications, this would still allow you to do the dirty work before they actually reveal the full word, allowing you to also REVEAL the word before they say it, which you USUALLY can't do with NW predictions. Or you could show it to the rest of the audience first, or toss the drawing on the table, have them reveal their word, and then let them turn over, etc. Other approaches are obviously possible too. I'm trying to remember the "process" for Glance, and wondering if you could apply the same with this, still having the benefit of the common books, etc.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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DanHarlan V.I.P. 998 Posts
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Glenn West is absolutely right that there are examples of great successes out there that have come from ignoring the "standard" model. I'm excited by the possibilities and I'm trying to fully understand what I can and cannot do in a world where, "Once you share someone something, they now posess it as well, and they can do whatever the hell they please with that information."
When I read Glenn West's comment, "such "exposure" really acts as exposure for the original distributors, and can be great for marketing and publicity," I think he's saying that a free, derivative version of a distributor's product is good for the distributor. That certainly helps to ease my conscience, knowing that the distributor is helped when I share a competitive product. Although, I suppose I would need to mention them for that to work. I hadn't planned on it. I'm glad I have Glenn West here to make sure I don't miss details like that. Also, I'm still a bit confused why I can't just share the original work. It's already complete. I own it. It already credits everybody and mentions the distributor. According to Glenn West, anything except the original would be inferior, so a free version of the original seems like an improvement. When I suggested making the work available for free, Glenn West was quick to point out that Blue Crown might take legal action. How can I make Glenn West famous and give Blue Crown free marketing and publicity if Glenn West doesn't think Blue Crown will let me exercise my right to do whatever the hell I please with the information? Glenn West is right, you know. This whole copyright and IP protection stuff makes it way too complicated for me to just give everybody a copy of information I own. I'll have a think on it... and get back to you. --Dan Harlan |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Brian Brushwood's new book test (45 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Mar 14, 2013 01:27 pm 
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