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mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 08:59, Harry Lorayne wrote: First of all I also admitted here that I did not burn any of your books and I have often written that they contain good material. So go and dig those posts also, please. Secondly: jealous of WHAT? You may be right if I was a frustrated magician who hasn't been able to publish anything although trying and longing to. But I am not. I am just a person who likes magic and card magic in particular and which relies on other people's creativity in order to perform some good effects. And I have always admitted this. So please don't call me jealous again. And don't refer to me as a schmo again! And I remind you that the first time you jumped on me, was because I dared suggesting a book not written by you to an OP. Thanks in advance mlippo |
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CardStudent New user Greer, SC 57 Posts |
If anyone ever burned any Harry Lorayne book, they burned some of the best magic that has ever been published. Back on the topic of Roberto Giobbi... I understand there is a long standing debate about those books. For what's it worth, if anything, here's my two cents: Like most things, they have their strengths and weaknesses. In general, it is my opinion that Royal Road & Erdnase describe easier versions of the sleights in them than Giobbi does in his books. I found this especially true of the Classic Force and the Bottom Deal. Mr. Giobbi's approaches to these techniques may be more to the liking of some, but I simply prefer the other books for learning these moves. The diagonal palm shift is another example.
That being said, there are certain things in the Giobbi books (like the Lessinout Cull) that you won't find in those other works. Plus, you can't know which methods YOU will prefer personally until you have read each and compared them for yourself. My advice? Simple. By as many good books on card magic as you can afford, by as many different authors as possible. Of course, it takes time and money to read a bunch of them, but it gives you the best possible chance of finding routines and tricks you like. It also gives you the broadest foundation to build on when you start creating your own material. As for the actual tricks, it is my opinion that Lorayne's books are far richer sources of far better tricks than Giobbi's. I have started collecting the ebook versions. So far, I only have 4 of them, but I will eventually buy (and study) them all. His personality is different from mine, but the man served the country during WWII and has been alive more than twice as long as I have. He has also personally interacted with virtually every big name in magic since the 50's. It stands to reason he has learned a thing or two from all that. However, this too, is a matter of opinion. He writes himself that not everyone will like every trick in every one of his books. The only way for you to know for sure is to read them. That is true of any book, including those by Roberto Giobbi. For those with limited funds, here's what I suggest: If you're a complete beginner, start with Classics 4. It has all but the outdated material from "The Magic Book" in it. As has been rightly said by many people, you can make a living as a professional close-up magician with just the material in that one book. Plus, if you have Classics 4, you'll have "Star Quality" and the Ken Krenzel book when you're ready for them. Even though I am not a beginner, that is the approach I took a few weeks ago when I moved from studying Giobbi to studying Lorayne. I then purchased "How to Perform Feats of Mathematical Wizardry" and "The Himber Wallet Book" directly from Conjuring Arts. You can email Mr. Lorayne himself if you prefer to do business that way. After you read "The Magic Book" section, I would recommend you purchase Classics 1 and read those 4 in order, skipping "The Magic Book" when you get to it. Just go slow enough to make sure you at least UNDERSTAND the material, even though you will go back later and really master those tricks and techniques which appealed to you. I can make this recommendation even though I do not have Classics 1 yet (I will buy it on Friday) because I DO have Close-Up Card Magic. At my skill level (which I would consider intermediate), I could have started with Classics 1, but I wanted to re-read "The Magic Book" first. I had read it years ago, but now that I am studying Mr. Lorayne's entire body of work with such focus, this felt to me like a logical approach. Back on the topic of Giobbi... Once you have finished ClC1-ClC4 and BOF1-3, you will have enough performance material to last a lifetime. Yet, you may want to read Giobbi's books next for the additional techniques he teaches. By the way, I do not mean to imply that Lorayne does not teach techniques. He does, and he teaches them well. It's just that some of those who specialize in Card magic may enjoy learning further variations on those techniques and additional moves and sleights that are not in any of Harry's books. Again... the more good books on card magic you buy (and read), the more you'll know about (or any other kind of magic). Since you may not have much time or money (I know I don't), I'd start with Lorayne. I know some people might make a different suggestion, but that's my two (maybe four) cents.
"Cards are the poetry of magic." J.N. Hofzinser
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Paragon New user 67 Posts |
@CardStundent: That's whole pound not only 2 cents.
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CardStudent New user Greer, SC 57 Posts |
Paragon, I guess you're right.
"Cards are the poetry of magic." J.N. Hofzinser
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Paragon New user 67 Posts |
Also, if I may ask you: yeah I know, that in TCC 1 - 4 are more tricks and obviously better than in CC, but I wanted CC to learn those slights from all sides and properly and to have a lot of advice what should I or shouldn't I do. So you think that having CC if I don't have so much money is not necessary for my goals?
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-29 06:41, mlippo wrote: Let's see if we can get this straight, Mr. Knowledgeable. So long as you give answers as above - DEFINITE statements with !!! after it - I will respond. You are NOT helping Paragon, or anyone else with those DEFINITE "knowledgeable" statements. Since I AM a writer of magic books, books that I believe would be better for Paragon, or anyone else, I WILL NOT ALLOW STATEMENTS LIKE YOURS TO GO UN-ANSWERED. So, if you don't like my responses to statements like yours, that do have to do with me, AS THEY DO IN THIS INSTANCE - THEN DON'T MAKE THOSE UN-KNOWLEDGEABLE INCORRECT (IN MY FREAKING OPINION) STATEMENTS. But, you have every right to do so - JUST AS I HAVE EVERU RIGHT TO SAY YOU'RE WRONG. And WRONG YOU ARE (in MY FREAKING OPINION). I think this opinion from CardStudent above is much more helpful --- "As for the actual tricks, it is my opinion that Lorayne's books are far richer sources of far better tricks than Giobbi's" - in my FREAKING OPINION. See the difference? He says it's his opinion - not like your definite - oh, so knowledgeable - "NO!!!" And let me respond to your "orders" - do not call me this again, and do not do this again...etc. Fine, now, so long as you're giving orders, let me do the same - DO NOT MAKE DEFINITE UN-KNOWLEDGEABLE, UN-HELPFUL DEFINITE STATEMENTS IN AREAS THAT ALSO CONCERN ME, and mine, AGAIN. Thanks in advance.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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CardStudent New user Greer, SC 57 Posts |
That is a great question, but it is difficult to answer. In short, CC would definitely help you accomplish those goals. As to whether or not those goals are "necessary"... That is a more nuanced matter. This point should illustrate what I mean: Giobbi has three entire chapters on various forms of the double lift. To some, that may be a selling point. It certainly does give you the chance to find the ones that seem to work best in your hands and with your performing style. On the other hand, in my own (admittedly limited) performing experience, I find that one or two variations on any given sleight is probably enough. Therefore, as much as it pains me to say this, I would really only recommend the Card College volumes to people who want to learn as many different sleights as they can, as many different ways as possible. If that sounds like fun to you, you will love those books. If, however, you are of the persuasion that you really only need a certain number of core sleights, and only a couple variations on each of those, and you are looking for great tricks to choose from, then yes, I am saying that the Card College books aren't really necessary... especially since you already have the DVD's of the first two. Giobbi himself even asserts (rightly, I think) that if you truly master the material in those first two volumes, you can already do more things with a deck of cards that 90% of the magicians who do card magic.
Still, if you are anything like me when it comes to matters such as these, you will most likely buy Card College 3-5 eventually even if you hear they aren't "necessary." Just because they aren't strictly necessary doesn't mean they aren't fun. They are. Besides, there are SOME good tricks in those books, and your finances will likely improve in the future. You can always buy the books you want one at a time as you are able. So, even though I would recommend that you complete your Lorayne collection first (as I wish I had done), you will most likely want to acquire both Giobbi's entire body of work and Lorayne's, especially since you have such a keen interest in card magic. While we're on the subject of Giobbi, I have one more observation about his tricks: He himself admits that many of them are not taught the way he would do them. He is teaching them mainly to illustrate their requisite sleights in a presentational context. As you learn new sleights, you are encouraged, even by Giobbi himself, to go back and improve those tricks. Plus, volume 5 incorporates all of the previous 4 into a lot of really solid routines. I have heard that "Confidences" has some really great tricks too, but I haven't personally read that one yet. (It is one of the books my wife is getting me for my birthday).
"Cards are the poetry of magic." J.N. Hofzinser
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
It appears that PARAGON either didn't bother to read my comment--or he doesn't care whether he's a half pro or a part time pro.
Well, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to ME. But, whether he likes it or not, sooner or later, it will make a difference to HIM.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Paragon New user 67 Posts |
So I will grab TCC 4 with CC 1 & 2 and Tarbell course 1. Man, I am changing it, still. I am waiting for my money ( hopefully I will have them this week ). Looking forward for my magic books.
Guys, thank's. |
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Paragon New user 67 Posts |
@Dick Oslund: why? I wanna be part time pro!
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mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts |
[quote]On 2013-05-19 11:44, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-04-29 06:41, mlippo wrote: Quote:
On 2013-05-19 11:44, Harry Lorayne wrote: Is it so difficult for you to call people with their names/nicknames? I've always, in my posts, referred to you by your own name/surname. So please, respect me. Now that I think about better, you DO call properly some people, which (by pure chance I reckon) are the ones that agree with you. I know enough English to call you all sorts of names if I really wanted to, but I am on a public forum and I am respecting their rules. When I said "NO!!!" I was replying to a simple question: is there anything better than Card College to learn card magic? Giobbi's wonderful work, gives you sleights, variations, effects that use them, writes about the tools of any cardman, teaches construction, psychology, presentation, audience management and much much more. No other book series by the SAME AUTHOR gives you the same things in the same work (although CC has five volumes). Your books give effects and sleights, Ortiz in two of his invaluable books (Strong Magic and Designing Miracles) gives "just" invaluable theory and in other books gives you effects AND presentations), Colombini gives you tons of commercial and easy effects but nothing about how to present them and I could go on for very long... Card College has it ALL. So if you want to learn from the basics, that's the best way to go at the moment of writing. Learn the basics first, then start branching. Absolutely fine. In the future? Who knows? Quote:
On 2013-05-19 11:44, Harry Lorayne wrote: I was not giving orders. I said "please do not call me ..." So read my post again. Please. Thanks mlippo |
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Mago_Silver New user Italy 10 Posts |
I've read about Harry Lorayne only memory books, those of card magic I sold them and I bought the 5 card college. I think Card College is the most important work about card magic.
Silver |
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Mago_Silver New user Italy 10 Posts |
P.s.: I'm sorry for my poor english!
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Paragon New user 67 Posts |
No problem, thank's for comment!
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Aah, from Italy(must be best friends, no? If not, you should be.) Mr. mlippo (did I get the name right now? And, so we all know - IS THAT your regular/real name? There's no doubt about mine.) YOU ARE WRONG!!! Stop with "the best." You have no idea what's "the best" except perhaps for YOU, not for others. So, just to make sure everyone knows what I'm talking about, even Mago-Silver, YOU ARE WRONG!! And, it sure did seem as if you were giving me orders - so read your post again, please. So, I do, really, appreciate your wonderful definite suggestions (which, as I've already stressed, are no help to people like Paragon) and those of the newbie, Mr. Mago_Silver. Again, I'm sure he REALLY KNOWS.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Paragon New user 67 Posts |
Mr. Lorayne what do you think is wrong with CC for me and better in your TCC (4) and others?
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
I don't do book reviews. And I've already advised you NOT to buy any of my books, and that I won't sell any to you. So, you don't need to bother with a choice. But, I assume, you'll just continue to ask questions. Right? Do so, much better than MAKING A MOVE.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
PS: And can't really give a definite answer, since I've never read any of Roberto's books.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Paragon New user 67 Posts |
Doesn't matter what I buy. I wanted to know why you are angry on guys who adviced to buy legendary books and saying that I should stick to just your books therefore I am still asking. Even if your books were the best in the world they can share their thoughts as you can. Once more you should also respect big names in magic as others respect you and not to critisize others for their thoughts. Of course I do not say what you have to do but think about it for a moment.
Also I can only recommend or critisize your book after reading it. |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Of course. On and on and on and on.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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