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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
If he ever played for money it is sure he got caught! His technique is HORRIBLE! Lot of talk and stories but that's about it...
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Wizzard Veteran user 322 Posts |
One of the lost generation!
JMN
It's never the wand, it's always the magician
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timlic Regular user Birmingham 120 Posts |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Well, I think that the best for him is to look for another field of expertise...
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Bandaloop Regular user Dodging attacks for the past 195 Posts |
Here's the thing. Either his story is entirely made up, in which case who cares. It's marketing.
or He did cheat and get caught and put in the hospital, in which case that's no big surprise when you look at his video. If that's a video of him doing moves that he's learned to do better since he used to cheat, then I'm afraid of what they used to look like and not at all shocked he got caught. All of these moves are great and fun for magic demos but they're worth almost nothing at the card table. They're just moves. There is so much more involved with hustling than that -- to the point where the actual move is the LEAST IMPORTANT aspect. |
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-12 17:12, Bandaloop wrote: The shuffles won't pass one single high stakes game for sure. That Chaos shuffle, or whatever it is, is a magicians style of shuffling. Everything about the guy smells "magician", the way the cards are handled, the cards that are used, the biography which is against all odds (which almost every BASIC gambler knows). Ofcourse on a DVD containing technical stuff, I am sure he won't go into the psychology of hustling, but the moves on there are not really gambling moves, more like magician demoing moves. In another topic a poster mentioned that the story around a cheating Daniel Madison has been changed like 3 times. This makes the story of a underground high stakes hustler in London underground clubs highly unlikely. As a player myself, who has played at underground clubs (which enlarges my doubt about him getting in in the first place), I find the almost "romantic" sounding stories quite cute, if it only were to be a presentational hook. But here an unbelievable story (which has changed three times)or hook is used as a selling point to those who should and do know better. |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Question?
Is this material better for magicians doing a gambling act?
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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popcalinda Veteran user 336 Posts |
This is what my good friend and gambling expert said about videos:
I consider myself a better-than-average enthusiast when it comes to gambling sleights. I've read all classic texts and watched all the DVDs commercially available and am able to perform most classic moves reasonably well. From my perspective... Daniel Madison's Mechanic is a mess. I'll be objective and just review this on the premise of "cheating techniques". Right from the start, he clearly shows little understanding of the psychology of cheating, the variety of cheating techniques available and their pros and shortfalls. The entire footage is shot with him sitting on a coach at a coffee table. I don't know how many games are played on a coffee table while sitting on a coach where he has been gambling, but I have, for sure, seen very few instances of such. There is no reference made to how the height difference, sitting posture and hand positions make certain movements easier / seem more natural than it would otherwise be. He starts off describing the "fair deal", but never demonstrates it for a full 5 minutes at least. He claims that there's no need for a mentor to teach or tell you how to do sleights because if you know it can be done, you'll eventually figure out how to do it, like he did. He then demonstrates the "Madison Grip", which is essentially a slightly less "specifically defined" Gene Maze Grip (which he would have known if he bothered to learn from a source instead of from himself) and then teaches his take on the bottom deal. There are 4 big points of contention with the bottom deal alone. (1) He talks about the knuckle flash, then proceeds to demonstrate a bottom deal with both knuckle-flash and finger flutter. Really? (2) He advocates a swinging action for the deal. On a coffee table, the action is already weird, just looking at it. With normal table, the same swinging action will basically scream out "SUSPICIOUS!" (3) He talks about the scrapping sound that is commonly associated with dealing from the bottom. He attributes it to the wrong reason and then further states, "I still have this problem." - What gives? If it's a just a technique that's being shared, yes - it doesn't really matter because the game environments usually more than cover for such problems, but I'm supposed to be paying to learning these *** moves? (4) I'll cover this in a bit. He then moves on to the second deal. Problem (4) comes in here - he disagrees with Vernon (IIRC) advocating dealing consecutive second deals, but advocates doing consecutive bottom deals instead. I don't think anyone really needs any explanation here. IMHO, the worst part of the second dealing section is when he says something to the effect of, "I don't do second deals. But these are my tips and advices for the second deal." - Really? The necktie he does on the coffee table reveals the bottom card whenever he does a second deal too. I don't know whether to attribute this to a lack of skill, or production quality considerations, or both. To his credit, he understands the point about the size of the brief and can execute a reasonable punch deal with a legit technique. He also reiterates, "This is the way I do the <sleight>." and does acknowledge some moves' impracticality at the gaming table. At this point, I'm rather tired of typing already, so I'll just summarize. The false shuffle sequences are poor, the top card cover table pass is poorly executed and needless to say, if anyone believes that the muck is good for anything apart from a poor demo move, they're in for a bad time. The biggest slap-in-the-face came when he talked about a one card shift (can't remember what he named it). He describes it as a variation of the Diagonal Palm Shift which he developed because he did not like the way the left hand and fingers needed to move so much in the DPS, then proceeds to do a poor and wrong DPS. This CLEARLY shows a gross lack of reading, understanding and practice of the DPS. I think the best lines that describe the release can be found on my Facebook news feed - Magician A: Why was the release so anticipated? Magician B: People want the deck, bro. Hope you've got your answer. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-13 13:35, bishthemagish wrote: From what I have read on this thread, the material might be better for a magician doing a juggling act (using anything but playing cards). |
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-13 17:18, Cagliostro wrote: he has an 70% roi% though, so perhaps there is something that can be used for cheating at the coffee table |
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the fritz Special user 647 Posts |
I have watched it and Daniel does a good job of teaching the moves. If you are really hoping to be able to learn how to cheat in card games, look elsewhere. This is a dvd set full of moves that are well-taught but certainly I would never try using something like these to cheat in a game. For what it is (a dvd full of moves) I really enjoyed it. If you are looking for a definitive dvd source that will TEACH you to get the money, you'll be looking for a long, long time because the modern day Erdnase doesn't exist.
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the fritz Special user 647 Posts |
I have watched it and Daniel does a good job of teaching the moves. If you are really hoping to be able to learn how to cheat in card games, look elsewhere. This is a dvd set full of moves that are well-taught but certainly I would never try using something like these to cheat in a game. For what it is (a dvd full of moves) I really enjoyed it. If you are looking for a definitive dvd source that will TEACH you to get the money, you'll be looking for a long, long time because the modern day Erdnase doesn't exist.
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
We heard you the first time.
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-14 12:16, the fritz wrote: With all the respect and modesty due to such a matter, I'm currently writing it. More about this in a few months... |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-14 13:24, AMcD wrote: Have you thought of a name to use as author. Perhaps something as cryptic and mysterious as S.W. Erdnase, like DcAM? (AMcD spelled backwards.) |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Yes, I thought about it. I'll use mine.
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-14 11:33, the fritz wrote: so why does the advertisement claim that Madison lived the life of a real cheat and you are about to learn from someone with hands on experience if it is just a bunch of impractical moves? |
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts |
You guys just wasted 2 pages of posts that you will never get back talking about this kid.... reminds me of when weapons of a card shark was released by a kid...
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=188
...agreed, far too much press (to which I admit I'm contributing with this post) for an undeserving author/performer who has never released anything related to cheating or hustling that had any value whatsoever, or accurately represented anything any cheater or hustler would ever consider using. Madison's is donkey material aimed at kids. The material Arnold has already released in book form, and will no doubt generate more of in the future is 1000 times more useful than this pile of crap. Arnold knows of what he speaks (something that's obviously important in this subject matter) and Madison hasn't got a clue. Shop at home folks, there's no need to go outside the forum for quality information Madison's material isn't worthy of comment...and yet we comment on it |
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-14 16:24, iamslow wrote: I'm a masochist at heart, so that is okay Weapons of the cardshark.. how could I forget about that one |
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