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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
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Public funding of science research is a matter of priorities - a political choice. Now we're getting closer. So is the production and distribution of technology a political choice--even "private" technology. A country's energy grid has little to do with "free market" forces. Plugging into an existing fossil fuel grid--one made possible by stealing land for pipelines through eminent domain, buoyed by oil depletion allowances, the production and maintenance of an Interstate Highway system, the buying and selling of legislators, and an international oil cartel which effectively sets prices--is not the same as competing in a theoretical "free market" to sell toothpaste.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote: On Feb 1, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote That's the grammar we find in a demand to affirm some article of faith rather than science.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
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On Feb 2, 2018, landmark wrote: Which is why "Free market" solutions such as NYC T champions are bound to make things worse when it comes to national energy policy. The fossil fuel companies already have a huge advantage; any stance of neutrality now only amplifies those advantages. It is as if in a track and field competition, only one competitor were allowed to use a car. Then in the middle of the race, a neutral "no additional car" policy is issued. Not only does it not address the fact that the car's use resulted in an existing lead before the policy was instituted, but now additionally, the competitors are barred from any advantage. Such a policy only greatly amplifies the already existing inequality.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Jack, your free market and my free market, are two very different things.
You keep stating that what we have is a free market. It is not. And despite the massive lead you're referring to, change is inevitable. The thing that usually delays progress the most is governmental influence, which is why less is needed - not more. There was a time when most people couldn't imagine travelling any other way than by riding a horse. A few more generations and the dinosaurs, and their fear based worshipping of status quo , will be gone. The stupid center cannot hold.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 1, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote: It's funny that your second sentence contradicts your first sentence (because I've already responded to it more than once, so it's just more game playing on your part). And then your third sentence ("If so...") indicates that you are aware (and willing to accept) that it's possible I don't have a solution - which is what I've been saying all along! And speaking of questions that never get answered... Do you accept the scientific consensus that AGW is occurring? It's not a trick question. I just want to know. You could say yes, no, maybe, I don't know, or I refuse to answer. Which is it? Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 1, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote: No. Science and faith are different epistemologies altogether. A preponderance of reason and data is buttressed by peer review, replication, and ultimately publication. And all of that together does contribute to rational argument. So do YOU accept the scientific consensus that AGW is occurring? Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2018, R.S. wrote: You are using a grammatical construction associated with those who argue from religious authority. Scientific consensus has no political meaning or authority.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
But still it's used by politicians, and their owners, who've assumed a dubious authority.
On the the other side we have those desperate to have their well meant message heard - and over react with predictions of doomsday scenarios. And all the dogs keep eating the same breakfast.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 28, 2013, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Yup, quoting scripture and presuming moral authority. Two strikes against such public argument by true believers against their enemy the denialists... Don't serve the toxic koolaid.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2018, NYCTwister wrote: so hear it and factor that into your decision about who to trust and what to support.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
I do, but when it comes to elected officials the pickings be mighty slim.
I reckon.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2018, NYCTwister wrote: "their well meant message" ... that's mindreading and presuming social incompetence... but we're not in junior high-school write a news story class. Who's the intended audience and what's the call to action?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
The intended audience is, of course, all of us.
Their incorrect presumption is that society, in general, is competent. Still thinking about entropy/ecology/costs, btw. Thanks for adding another layer.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2018, R.S. wrote: Since you have no solution do I assume you do not endorse one? If so then WHY DOES ALL THIS MATTER? And it is not a very good question. Do I believe climate change is happening? Do I believe man is causing it? Do I believe something should be done? Do I believe we can change climate by our actions? Or do I believe in doomsday? All those are implied or contained in your question or you try to slow walk through them because that is your style of discussion. It may have worked when you were in college and taught liberal think, but sorry it doesn't work that way with me. So is climate change happening? Of course, it always has and always will. Do I think man causes it? To some extent how could 7 billion or so people give or take NOT have an affect on environment? Do I think we can change climate by our actions such as limiting carbon emissions? In reality the truth is that the affect of all the killer policies Al Gore wants to enact will have a very limited affect on anything but our economy. Do I believe we should do something? I think yes we should stop polluting the planet. We only have one after all. Do I believe in dooomsday? Absolutely not. And I didn't believe in the other 40 or so that we were told were "tipping points". You keep screaming this question with all the religious fervor of a guy who keeps shouting "do you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior?". Interesting.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Feb 2, 2018, NYCTwister wrote: Unless this was sarcasm or hyperbole we disagree very strongly. I have more faith in humanity and society.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
In humanity I have almost absolute faith - especially in the long run, and because it doesn't really matter.
In American society, very little. However, I have an abundance of hope. Let's just spilt the difference, and call it a day.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea it is your lack of faith in American people that is disturbing. You are just not looking in the right places if you don't see reason for hope or pride.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
I'm looking at the whole picture.
No need to make an issue of this. We just disagree, as is our right as Americans
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Regardless of what type of picture you have to look at having very little faith in American society explains a lot.
You can do that all you like. I am not here to stop you or tell you not to. Have at it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2018, NYCTwister wrote: Okay, what would improve that opinion?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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