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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » New Report on Global Warming » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (151 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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NYCTwister
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Sure Danny,

Whatever you need to protect from your little privileged bubble.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
NYCTwister
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3...2...1...
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Dannydoyle
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Which privilege bubble exactly?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
On Feb 3, 2018, R.S. wrote:
...do you accept "The Current Scientific Consensus(TM) on AGW(R)" as more than a political product ?

No.


That wasn't exactly my question. And what's with the '(TM)' and '(R)' business? Your insistence on reframing the words of others is quite unnecessary. But your position is understood. Interesting. Do you think AGW is a hoax? Do you think NASA, NOAA, The American Meteorological Society,The Geological Society of America, et., etc., etc. are all involved in some sort of nefarious conspiracy?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Jonathan Townsend
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I do not have faith or confidence in AGW brand scientism.

Climate science is fine. Demanding cleaner technology seems a good idea.

Arguing for scientism is not the same as supporting science.
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R.S.
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
I do not have faith or confidence in AGW brand scientism.

Climate science is fine. Demanding cleaner technology seems a good idea.

Arguing for scientism is not the same as supporting science.



Do you think NASA, NOAA, The American Meteorological Society, The Geological Society of America, et., etc., etc. are all engaged in "scientism"? (perhaps you'll need to give your definition of scientism here). Or are they all involved in some nefarious conspiracy? Which scientific bodies do you deem credible?

Do you think AGW is a hoax?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, R.S. wrote:
Do you think [*] is a hoax?


It's conflating the ideals of science, the exigencies of politics and the patterns of religion as social force into something toxic.
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NYCTwister
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If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
R.S.
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, R.S. wrote:
Do you think [*] is a hoax?


It's conflating the ideals of science, the exigencies of politics and the patterns of religion as social force into something toxic.


Is that a 'Yes'? And what's with the [*]?

(I see you also didn't answer my other questions, but don't bother if all you're going to do is obfuscate and tap dance)

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, NYCTwister wrote:
Here's good news -

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a74fffde4b06ee97af2ae60


Indeed!!! Smile

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, NYCTwister wrote:
Here's good news -

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a74fffde4b06ee97af2ae60


Indeed!!! Smile

Ron

Smile
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Jonathan Townsend
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Ron, you are echoing classic apostasy/hersey argument. Here's one interpretation of your stated position with historical shadows: "Do you have faith in AGW, accept the enlightened word of its prophets and are you prepared to submit to those who serve this greater good?" "Why do you deny the revealed truth of AGW in this matter of our world?"

I may not share your religious faith, but I respect what good faith brings to the faithful and enjoy what good it brings to our common world.

So, are Getty, Rockefeller and Bush to be honored for setting the world alight so their children can see this new truth of AGW? They did it all to spread the word by messengers and electric light imagery?

If things really do warm up a few degrees there's a giant forest in permafrost waiting to thaw...

Hope from a surprising place?
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NYCTwister
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Well, I didn't expect THAT. Smile
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R.S.
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Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Ron, you are echoing classic apostasy/hersey argument. Here's one interpretation of your stated position with historical shadows: "Do you have faith in AGW, accept the enlightened word of its prophets and are you prepared to submit to those who serve this greater good?" "Why do you deny the revealed truth of AGW in this matter of our world?"


“Apostasy”? Please.

And it looks more and more like you are echoing classic denialism. Why don’t you try answering the questions I asked instead of tap dancing?

Quote:

I may not share your religious faith, but I respect what good faith brings to the faithful and enjoy what good it brings to our common world.


What this has to do with the topic is beyond me. And for the record, I have no “religious faith.”

Quote:

So, are Getty, Rockefeller and Bush to be honored for setting the world alight so their children can see this new truth of AGW? They did it all to spread the word by messengers and electric light imagery?

If things really do warm up a few degrees there's a giant forest in permafrost waiting to thaw...

Hope from a surprising place?


Oh, for Pete’s sake. More nonsense and obfuscation. If you're not going to answer the questions, just say you'd rather not. I'd respect that a whole lot more than your silly rhetorical games and meandering musings.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Dannydoyle
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I thought the same of you.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
NYCTwister
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I don't know about all of that.

I just can't believe anyone thinks Getty, Rockefeller, and Bush, were good.

Who's next? Edison?
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, Getty, Rockefeller, and Bush, were good.

Who's next? Edison?


Good businessmen? Good presidents? Good in preparing us for AGW?

And folks do seem to like the idea of a promissed land... ready for habitation and rich in minerals.

For those who wonder what stories a few degrees and centuries might bring. To those who wonder what was beneath those coasts and desserts.

But wait, it gets worse. Imagine we aren't the only culture that sees AGW as real, as an opportunity to act for the best of reasons, to save the world.

Looks like trouble to me. Just at a moment when a nice idea for a card trick posted by someone in New York could inspire a fine routine that's a hit for a local card guy in New Deli.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, R.S. wrote:
And it looks more and more like you are echoing classic denialism....


Yup, we have the "D" word.

I said climate science is real. But science isn't about denial or belief. It's about models which give the best available predictions no matter what a person chooses to believe. There's no denial. Just confidence limits, measures and the best predictive power.

Then we get politics. That's not about belief either so the "D" word does not apply.

Do you accept belief in AGW as something more than just science or politics?
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Jonathan Townsend
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Where are we now? According to the IPCC site
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data......rs.shtml
Their Schedule for the next report (from below)
IPCC - latest? http://www.ipcc.ch/
has them confidently waiting till 2022 for AR6.

I feel we could discuss "what do we know" and "what can we do" calmly till then.
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R.S.
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Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, R.S. wrote:
And it looks more and more like you are echoing classic denialism....


Yup, we have the "D" word.

I said climate science is real.


I see what you did there. Of course the science is real. But, as far as I can tell, you don't accept the consensus conclusions of the science:

Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
On Feb 3, 2018, R.S. wrote:
...do you accept "The Current Scientific Consensus(TM) on AGW(R)" as more than a political product ?

No.


Quote:
But science isn't about denial or belief. It's about models which give the best available predictions no matter what a person chooses to believe. There's no denial. Just confidence limits, measures and the best predictive power.



Again, we're not talking about the science itself. We're talking about the conclusions of the scientists. When one doesn't accept a conclusion which is overwhelmingly supported in the scientific community, then THAT can be called denial. I'm pretty sure that you would characterize someone who refuses to accept that the earth orbits the Sun as being in "denial", no?


Quote:
Do you accept belief in AGW as something more than just science or politics?


I can't answer for others - I can only answer for myself. Which is that I accept the current scientific conclusions. And neither politics nor anything else is a factor in my acceptance of that conclusion. Furthermore, I am open to revising my view in the face of new and compelling information.

So, do you think NASA, NOAA, The American Meteorological Society, and the many many other organizations I listed are credible sources of information? Do you really think they are all engaged in some sort of nefarious conspiracy for (apparently according to you) political purposes? What would it take for you to accept that AGW is real and occurring? Which scientific organization(s) conclusions would convince you?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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