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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote: I'm trying to move the conversation from expressions of exclamations of "of course, we don't want our oceans to turn into garbage heaps" to investigate how that clean up might actually occur. Any ideas?
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
What happens if some boat people claim the islands as territory?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Well, while the world leaders are doing an excellent job in creating more boat people, perhaps some more efficient plan could be worked out. Possible preventative measures?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
It's been settled.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pop......826a0718 I'm sure no one will dare to question HIM.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
As for the plastic problem in general, thinking in terms of prevention will probably yield the best investment. What good will it do to clean it up if it will just reoccur?
One thing we could do, on a strategic level, would be to get rid of the ridiculous ban on hemp. The degradable plastic made from it could be used to replace a lot of single use plastic; and that's beside all the other uses the plant has. It's only banned because Rockefeller and Hearst wanted it to be. Many of the clam shell and styrofoam that take out food comes in could be replaced with paper. Another would be to focus on doing a better job of catching it at the points that it enters the water. Fines that actually punitive would have the polluters cleaning up there act. On a science fiction level...self replicating, plastic eating, nanites?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 9, 2018, NYCTwister wrote: Inertia in politics - might even be measurable and fungible... but nature will do its thing anyway. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20......4725.htm How well is hemp doing in other places as crop/resource?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
Fines that actually punitive would have the polluters cleaning up there act. Fines by whom, enforceable by whom? What are the incentives to stop polluting?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 10, 2018, landmark wrote: Exactly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 10, 2018, landmark wrote: The government, the government. Financial loss/ruin.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Who enforces it internationally?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
That's the question.
While domestic laws are welcome in my opinion, without agreed upon international treaties, it is fruitless to hope that altruism will solve the problem internationally. The company that pollutes has an economic advantage generally, and thus a competitive advantage in the world market. No company will willingly give up that advantage without assurances that competitors will do so as well.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 11, 2018, landmark wrote: An international agreement to punish in excess of profit would be nice, if it didn't get bogged down in the usual stupid ways. It's up to each country to act with rational self interest, so it's NOT a matter of altruism - it's a matter of taking away the incentive. At the end of the day it's about money in (world)wide politics; as is the case in all our systemic problems.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So your plan is to start a trade war.
Don't forget in many cases the "companies" making the "profit" you so hate are actually national governments. For example China. Now what?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Today - from elsewhere
Quote:
** |June 11, 2018 17:44 |Reply What if financial entities treat continued human environmental degradation as profitable? If you recall there was a James Bond movie where the villain was interested in finances and water rights.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 11, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote: No, it isn't. Quote:
Don't forget in many cases the "companies" making the "profit" you so hate are actually national governments. For example China. I didn't - and could you stop telling people what they think? It makes you sound like a republican; which I know you're not, since you have "no team". I don't hate companies, profit, or governments. Quote:
Now what? Now...nothing. Jack asked what might be done, and I threw a few things out there. How about you Danny? What do you think should be done?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 11, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote: Not sure if you're addressing me on that, but if you are, I am proposing the exact opposite of a trade war. I am proposing an international treaty. Treaties are signed when all the parties find a common self-interest. Treaties are what you sign to forestall wars. When the parties no longer have a common self-interest, then of course those treaties can no longer exist. It makes no difference whether individual countries are capitalist or not; they all work within a capitalist world market framework. When China is assured that other countries will not be able to undercut its prices due to cost-saving pollution, and vice versa, then the conditions exist for a treaty in the rational self-interest of all parties.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 11, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote: I'm not understanding; What's the IF here? That is the current state of affairs. No need for fictional Bond scenarios. How to reverse it is the question on the table, I thought.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I thought you wanted to explore positioning an economic firebreak... where some factors of production are protected from some changes in demand.
I'm starting to like the idea of market as djinn - granting wishes at a price. Can we demand a market pass the Turning test?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 11, 2018, landmark wrote: I was talking to the guy who wants to impose fine in excess of profits and want to know how that gets done exactly? That was not you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 11, 2018, landmark wrote: How do you propose to monitor, refine and enforce such a thing? Google treaties with Amazon and Alibaba by way of a free market... if you ignore the externalities of friction, exchanges of hard goods vs labor vs future value bets... temperature .
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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