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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
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On Oct 15, 2015, RNK wrote: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch....../308306/ |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
So, we're supposed to believe a non-fiction writer over Freeman Dyson, "a force-of-nature intellect whose brilliance can be fully grasped by only a tiny subset of humanity, that handful of thinkers capable of following his equations."??
(That's certainly the response I'd get from a number of posters here if their positions were reversed.) |
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RNK Inner circle 7493 Posts |
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On Oct 19, 2015, rockwall wrote: Lol. Of course you are supposed to believe.
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
"Many of Dyson’s facts on global warming are wrong, as the scientists who have done actual research on the subject point out, but more disconcerting is the selective way he gathers his information and the peculiar conceptual framework into which he inserts it.
"It is true that plants grow better with increases in carbon dioxide. (Photosynthesis is the conversion of carbon dioxide and sunlight into organic compounds, so the more CO2 and sunlight, the better, up to a point.) If a plant’s survival depended only on its metabolism—if all it had to do was photosynthesize—then increased CO2 in the atmosphere might indeed be a good thing. But plants happen to grow in these little universes we call ecosystems, where they are sustained by complex webs of interdependency with fungi, microbes, animals, and other plants. Much of this mutually dependent life is adapted to narrow temperature and rainfall regimes, and these biomes are collapsing everywhere. "Plants do grow better with increased CO2, but not when deprived of water. Water is a vanishing commodity in the American West, where I live, and where, like the Australians and Sudanese and many others, we are enduring a succession of increasingly prolonged and severe droughts. Drought is a paleontological fact in the American West, but the latest desiccations have a new signature, and my region’s climatologists, hydrologists, foresters, and water managers are nearly unanimous in their conviction that what we are seeing now is climate change, the anthropogenic kind, a consequence of too much CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Drought-induced stress increases plants’ susceptibility to disease, and tree diseases are epidemic now in my home landscape and elsewhere. Plants grow better with increased CO2, but not when they are dead snags. "The planet, Dyson assured Rose, is warming mainly in places that are cold; it is not getting hotter so much as the climate is evening out. This is a peculiar analysis. The fact is that the planet is getting hotter, by small but enormously consequential increments. That the warming is most pronounced in cold places is true, but this is no consolation to the creatures that live there. I recently returned from reporting on diminishing sea ice and the decline of penguin populations and krill stocks on the Antarctic Peninsula, the western side of which, over the past half century, has been warming at five times the world’s average rate. I feel obligated to put in a word for the elephant seals, fur seals, crabeater seals, leopard seals, whales, penguins, albatrosses, petrels, and other members of that cold-adapted, krill-dependent fauna. Dyson’s implication that an evening out of global temperatures might somehow be a neutral or beneficial phenomenon is astounding. Temperature differentials at different latitudes and altitudes are a prime driver of planetary weather. Weather patterns, needless to say, are full of consequence not just for penguins and seals, but for all life everywhere. "How could someone as brilliant as Freeman Dyson take the positions he does on global warming and other environmental issues?" |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
"In the range of his genius, Freeman Dyson is heir to Einstein—a visionary who has reshaped thinking in fields from math to astrophysics to medicine, and who has conceived nuclear-propelled spaceships designed to transport human colonists to distant planets. And yet on the matter of global warming he is, as an outspoken skeptic, dead wrong: wrong on the facts, wrong on the science. How could someone as smart as Dyson be so dumb about the environment? The answer lies in his almost religious faith in the power of man and science to bring nature to heel."
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
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On Oct 19, 2015, rockwall wrote: Would you, then, tend to agree with Einstein on politics? |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
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On Oct 19, 2015, rockwall wrote: The writer, Richard Muller, is hardly just a "non-fiction writer." "He is a physicist, at the University of California at Berkeley." He is a climate change critic: "Muller has won a MacArthur Fellowship, the Alan T. Waterman Award of the National Science Foundation, and election to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and the California Academy of Sciences. He is a very bright man. His reputation, before he made his splash in climate science, was based on his work in particle physics and astrophysics. Temperamentally, he seems to be chippier than average when he runs into sloppy science. He began his research on paleoclimates in the 1980s to counter “a lot of B.S.” in that field. He has taught a popular undergraduate course at Berkeley, “Physics for Future Presidents,” that skewers the misuse of data in climate science, and written a book by the same name. Muller is not a climate-change denier. He concedes that the world is warming and that human enterprise is playing a role. He insists, however, that it’s unclear just how much temperature trends correlate with greenhouse-gas emissions." http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch....../308682/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I would prefer a non fiction writer to a fiction writer I guess.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
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On Oct 19, 2015, Pop Haydn wrote: If Richard Muller is the writer, why does the byline say Kenneth Brower? |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
I found an intesting link by following some links on Judith Curry's site. She's got some interesting reads on Conflicts of Interest in Climate Science.
http://judithcurry.com/2015/10/12/confli......part-ii/ http://judithcurry.com/2015/02/25/confli......science/ The link that Judith references is an article in National Review titled "Global Warming: Follow the Money" http://www.nationalreview.com/article/41......ry-payne "In truth, the overwhelming majority of climate-research funding comes from the federal government and left-wing foundations. And while the energy industry funds both sides of the climate debate, the government/foundation monies go only toward research that advances the warming regulatory agenda. With a clear public-policy outcome in mind, the government/foundation gravy train is a much greater threat to scientific integrity." "Mann is typical of pro-warming scientists who have taken millions from government agencies. The federal government — which will gain unprecedented regulatory power if climate legislation is passed — has funded scientific research to the tune of $32.5 billion since 1989, according the Science and Public Policy Institute. That is an amount that dwarfs research contributions from oil companies and utilities, which have historically funded both sides of the debate." |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
If you're going to cherry pick from the Atlantic article - go for something that sets some context for having an opinion. Try this:
Quote:
The Orion engineer Brian Dunne, a nuts-and-bolts sort of guy, was doubtful at first about Dyson’s pragmatism. “I had had dealings with lots of very eminent theorists,” he told me. “I’d found huge gaps in their knowledge of things, particularly experimental problems—how to put something together that works. When I realized Freeman really is a fine engineer, I was astounded. He knows electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, structural. That’s unnerving, in a theoretical physicist with the eminence that he enjoys. His contributions to quantum electrodynamics are classics. They are beautiful pieces of work—poetry in physics, if you will. To see the same man do an analysis of the pusher-plate motion, and the shock-absorber motion, putting in the damping coefficients, and the strengths and stresses, and getting it all right—that’s unnerving.” They guy's analysis and understanding of basic thermodynamics (even as applied to non-linear climate issues) is likely sound. Chicken little will find places where the sky is falling ... but that's not exactly useful. Useful is having something to offer that works at least as well as the tools at hand. See Aristotle on persuasion.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
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On Oct 19, 2015, rockwall wrote: "Just because you're a genius, doesn't make you a smart guy!" This man is obviously very smart. He's also got a blind spot the size of Rhode Island concerning any information that doesn't support what he believes.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Ummm, Ed. If I'm going to pick someone with a blind spot and it's between you and Freeman Dyson, I think I'm gonna have to go with you.
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
No comments on the latest internal reports from Exxon?
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
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On Oct 19, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote: Hey, I'm still waiting for Pop to explain why he thinks Richard Muller is the author of the article on Freeman Dyson. I'm almost beginning to think Pop might have as much trouble admitting to a mistake as Magnus does. |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Hey guys ... Just went down to Daytona Beach ... The water level appears to be exactly where it was 15 years ago when I moved here....????? No one has drowned from this climate tsunami yet
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Who can argue with such compelling scientific evidence as that?
Case closed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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RNK Inner circle 7493 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 19, 2015, rockwall wrote: Since there are no articles Pop can google to answer your question I doubt you will get one.
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
I am sorry, I have been away from the board. I did misinterpret a link to the the author's name that went to a url featuring Muller. The author is not Richard Muller.
You guys are very personal in your attacks... Not wanting to disappoint, here is a link to another article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/20......4324378/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Oct 21, 2015, Pop Haydn wrote: This has become a disturbing tend. I agree. I am probably polar opposite from Bob on many things if not most but we just had a great afternoon talking at Jacks. Magnus just sent me a very thoughtful PM. We get cross occasionally but again in the end issues not personal. I was fortunate enough to spend a little time with Pop. Same deal, wonderful thoughtful person who does not deserve to be attacked personally for a simple difference of opinion. Hopefully I will see him again in April when I get back to the Castle. I have always wondered what a boring works it would be if everyone agreed?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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