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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Your logic is flawed. There ARE terrorists who attempt to board planes. We already know that. But, except for zoos, there ARE NO lions and tigers in Iowa. Your answer seems to suggest that there are no terrorists who would hijack planes either.
I disagree. There is no doubt in my mind that enhanced security has likely thwarted terrorist attempts. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Thanks, Bob. I'm glad you think it is helping. There have been a few would-be terrorists who did successfully board planes, even after 9-11, but who were thwarted by active, alert passengers. I am not sure that there has been a single authenticated capture of a would-be terrorist by the airport screening that we all go through. It may be a deterrent, I will grant you.
I will be on the lookout for security screening procedures on the way home, balducci. Unfortunately I won't be in town long enough for any restaurant recommendations this time, although I'd be happy to have them for future visits. I do enjoy the espresso at the Vasco Da Gama. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
As Woland pointed out, it would appear that the ONLY examples of people with any actual intent to harm anyone have been stopped by other passengers, NOT the government thugs molesting children in the name of "safety."
The TSA has stolen plenty of personal property that was not intended to be used against anyone on the plane; in fact, it's usually personal property intended to be used "on" the person who owns it, like water, or personal plant material, etc.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Other than the ones who forego the idea of hijacking a plane altogether in light of the increased risk of detection.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-29 11:13, Al Angello wrote: Fixed that for you Seriously though, government's can do somethings right. What's that quote, 'you can always count on them to do the right thing, after they've exauhsted every other option." Ok, even for me, this post was done a bit tongue in cheek.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Lol, sorry, the top 10 "good" catches are a joke. I actually thought that was a parody site with numbers 10 and 9.
Animals, and a science project, about which they quip "I wonder if mentioning the shutting down of the checkpoint added enough flare to his presentation to score him some bonus points?" Keeping you safe. The rest are all weapons, none of which they claim were for the intent of harming anyone (of course that doesn't mean that they weren't, but you'd think if these were their top "good" busts, they might have wanted to point out all the lives they saved that were threatened) The number one bust? What they post as the pinnacle of their busts for the year? A half ounce of c4. Half a freaking ounce. Now, that said, here's a video of 3 ounces being detonated. That's 6 times what he had. Now, even half an ounce would be able to cause SOME damage, and certainly is a dangerous material, and stupid to bring on a plane, for any reason. Also, keep in mind, as Balducci admitted, this was in his CHECKED luggage. There were also no detonation devices found. So, the crowning achievement of TSA for 2011 was to have a service man arrested for stupidly bringing a tiny amount of c4 home as a souvenir, in his checked luggage. Tucked away where he would have no access to it, clearly not intending to harm a singe person (and barely enough to do much harm at all, to even a single person if he did.) Absolutely NO threat to anyone, and this is the TOP of their list.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
What's the success rate of these inspections of everyone compared to randomly interviewing and then publicizing whatever the interviewee admitted to?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-30 12:32, LobowolfXXX wrote: Who would be stupid enough to even think about it after 9/11? The BIGGEST preventative measures have been the changes to the cockpit, and the attitude of the populace. Hell, we saw that much change with the time span of the actual attacks. Prior to 09/11, the official policies were to comply with hijackers. Obviously this was under the assumption that most hijackers would be looking t do something OTHER than crash the plane; a reasonable assumption based on all experiences. However, by the time the people on flight 93 realized what was happening, they did something about it. It took just over an hour for that policy to be overthrown in the minds of people. At 09:57, on September 11, 2001, the biggest, most effective, change in safety against future hijackings occurred; no one was going to ever successfully hijack a plane again after that moment.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
It's harder to measure the deterrent effect as to the actual apprehension effect. But it would be moronic, IMO, to assume that it doesn't exist.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-30 13:06, LobowolfXXX wrote: Im not assuming it doesn't, I'm just stating the fact that the biggest deterrent started at 09:57 on 9/11. Any "deterrent" from the TSA is negligible, and, in reality, completely irrelevant next to that. TSA is MUCH more a deterrent to people carrying drugs than anything else. Oh, and a deterrent to flying in general.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
After 9/11, NOT having the TSA would be the deterrent to flying. For me anyway. And I fly often.
And since it is impossible to measure the deterrent effect on terrorism, simply because the number of deterred attempts could never be known, upon what authority do you base your assertion that the TSA's effect on deterring terrorism is "negligible?" How could you possibly know that? |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
If it weren't for the fact that now we know that terrorists are willing to fly airplanes into populated areas, I'd be fine with letting the market sort it out. You could have TSA and non-TSA flights. I know which one I'd take.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-30 14:44, LobowolfXXX wrote: Yeah, the one with competent security that shows more concern for their customers safety, than they do about taking their private property, and their recreational habits.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Every day hundreds of people are harmed on US highways. Would the roads be safer if everyone was searched on the way on and off the roads? I don't condone harming anyone on the highway yet I still don't ask the roads to stop. Every month hundreds are lost to alcohol yet we don't picket liquor stores. Something is not matching for social cause versus social norm.
Even more money now weighted against an eternity or catastrophe still reads to me like an appeal to Pascal's Wager. What's the cost in dollars, time and additional confidence that the pilot won't be the problem, that some passengers won't cause less dramatic yet still terrible consequences for other passengers? What should we do compared to what can we do? Weighing actual against the uncertain and the immeasurable seems a false comparison.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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