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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Knots and loops » » Cut and Restored Rope for Today's Audiences (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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inhumaninferno
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I'll never forget Frank Everhart Sr. telling me that during an appearance at the Chase Park Plaza, he went on, did 20 minutes and never cut the *** rope!

Now, even though we are in the information age, the experience of viewing live magic is just as exciting and valid as ever and far surpasses any virtual experience. Reality wins IMHO.

Historically, magic secrets have often been available wholesale to the public...on cereal boxes, on TV, in magazines, etc. Yet, mystery entertainment prevails. There appears to be a primal need in humans for mystery and the unknown. This is at least partially evidenced by the popularity of Ghost Hunting on TV.
inhumaninferno
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To simply answer the question, best is subjective. Even today, the simplest of C & R rope methods is still effective.

Every era had saavy audiences...yet the classics continue to prevail.
Dick Oslund
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Ha! I hadn't heard that story (Frank Everhart)but I can picture him doing it!!!

Yea~ K I S M I F~~~It's the performer, not the prop!!!
inhumaninferno
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Glad you enjoyed, Dick.
RajeshLGov
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I love doing this classic & get very nice reactions from the audience. I use the old coiling method. I follow up the CR with "Rope through neck" with 2 people in the audience assisting me. This is immediately followed with "Flips Rope Routine", sans the lengthening rope. As the audience has already tested the rope so many times, they never doubt a thing. As all the elderly experienced people 've mentioned Ropes always fascinate, even todays SAVVY audience. Best, Raj.
JayF
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I've mentioned this in several other threads. I think Roberto Giobbi's version of the cut-and-restored rope routine is perfect for postmodern audiences. He calls it "The Houdini Rope Trick," and it was published in the November 2009 issue of Genii. I mean, Richard Kaufman wrote that Giobbi's routine "fooled me completely." 'Nuff said.

Jay
Dick Oslund
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HI JayF!

I haven't read Genii since Bill Larsen Jr. told John Todman (another school assembly magician, like the writer--(me)--that he (Bill) didn't consider school assembly magicians were really magicians.

I wrote Bill and told him, I could no longer subscribe as I "wasn't a magician", according to him.

Interestingly enough, his wife's first husband, John Daniels,I think, had done school shows (with her as assistant)!

So, I haven't seen Mr. Giobbi's C&R rope routine. From your description, it appears that Giobbi proves once again, that, it's the performer and his presentation, not the prop. So, I thank you for mentioning it.

Post Posted: Dec 9, 2014 12:35 pm
P.S....

I've written copious notes on the C&R Rope in the book. I mentioned that, earlier in this thread. From the first printed method (Scot's "Discovery of Witchcraft, 500 years ago) until, perhaps 70 years ago, little was written about C&R except method. I think (I could be wrong) that Tarbell was one of the first that published a presentation! (Perhaps Karl Germaine, or Harry Kellar, might have, superceded Doc.)

Ralph W. Hull (remember him? The Ultra Mental Deck--"Invisible Deck" guy.) published "Fifteen Minutes With A Piece Of Rope" in the '40s. I "memorized" it!

Leon MaGuire, in "Hugard's Monthly", mid '40s, followed up with a definite improvement on the Edward Victor method, by "changing the moment". In 1954,Jack Chanin, in one hour, gave me a "million dollar's worth" of tips on the technicals of the basic C&R routine.

Ken Allen's "If You Like It,I'll Do It Again" routine (early '50s) which used a variation of the Karl Germaine method, plus Victor's method, gave me the incentive to produce my C&R combined with the Nightmare, and a bluff restoration (before Conway) that I used for about ten years to open the high school program. It KILLED! --*thanks to all those named above, who had contributed their thinking.)

Looking back, I believe that "my evolution" experience with the C&R rope is what made me really understand that: "It's the performer and his presentation, not the prop!"

So, getting back to the OP's concern: "It's not what you do, it's how you do it" was what my mentors taught me. The "number 3" in the three rules for adding a new trick is, "Figure out how to do it, so that it ENTERTAINS an audience." THAT, is the ultimate objective!

Fool them, without making fools OF them!
oso2you
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I use a classic and simple method for c/r rope. I have always had great reactions when the "knot" uniting the two ropes is slid off and tossed out. For my money this effect will be an audience pleaser forever. Easy to see, easy to understand and surprising.

As an aside, it seems to me that many magicians simply move too fast. They don't give the audience time to see and comprehend what is happening. I think slowing down is especially important with rope magic. What say y'all?
55Hudson
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"Fool them, without making fools of them!" Well said, Dick. I am looking forward to your book.


Hudson
JayF
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Quote:
On Dec 9, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote:
HI JayF!

I haven't read Genii since Bill Larsen Jr. told John Todman (another school assembly magician, like the writer--(me)--that he (Bill) didn't consider school assembly magicians were really magicians.

I wrote Bill and told him, I could no longer subscribe as I "wasn't a magician", according to him.

Interestingly enough, his wife's first husband, John Daniels,I think, had done school shows (with her as assistant)!

So, I haven't seen Mr. Giobbi's C&R rope routine. From your description, it appears that Giobbi proves once again, that, it's the performer and his presentation, not the prop. So, I thank you for mentioning it.



Hi Mr. Oslund,

It is an honor to "correspond" with you on here!

Well, I've done school assemblies. Ray Hyman thinks I'm a real magician. Jerry Andrus seemed to think so too when he was still here. Since Richard Kaufman now owns Genii, maybe it is time to re-subscribe?

The Giobbi routine uses a different method than the "typical" C&R rope routine (no sw***h of the middle for a section near the end). The presentation is about how Houdini may have performed the trick. The presentation has kind of a mild "sucker" aspect in that the audience is led to think you may have accomplished the trick using some fancy sleight-of-hand, and then they are shown that you did not use the method they thought (kind of like the silk-to-egg or torn-and-restored napkin).

Since Genii subscribers can access old issues online, I would imagine some compeer should be able to let you see the description of the routine. If not, please PM me. I think you'd appreciate Giobbi's routine.

Best wishes,
Jay
Dick Oslund
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Hi Jay!

Thank you, but, I think the honor is mine!

I know of Ray Hyman, but, we've never met. Jerry Andrus! I met at some convention, and he really fooleld me! About 30 years ago, I was touring Oregon and Wshington, and, was able to spend an entire delightful weekend with him. He definitely "marched to the beat of a different drummer"!

Last night, a friend in the UK PM'd me and sent detailed information of Giobbi's routine. It looks very clever. At this point in my life, I'm not breaking in new material,but, I do enjoy the opportunity to look over the ideas of those magiciand whose knowledge and wisdom I respect. Giobbi is one of them.

Thanks for your input!
JayF
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Hi Mr. Oslund,

When Jerry passed away, I was extremely honored to serve as the MC at the celebration of his life. Jerry was definitely one of the most unique, creative, kind, eccentric, wonderful people I have ever known. I am so lucky that I was able to call him a friend for over a decade.

I still remember the first time I saw Jerry perform. I remember feeling the hairs stand up on the back of my neck because he had fooled me so badly. What he did seemed genuinely impossible. I also remember the first time he invited me to watch him perform from behind so that I could see how he was performing the different sleights. The methods to his magic were a joy to behold.

I'm glad a friend told you the details of the Giobbi routine. Of course, sometimes I think I shouldn't mention the routine to any other magicians. Maybe it would be better for me if it just stayed buried in an old Genii!

Jay
Dick Oslund
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Yup! It has been said, "If you want to establish "credentials" about a routine or trick, hide it in a book!"

Generally speaking, magicians "wont read"! Many great bits of magic are nicely hidden, UNTIL, someone "resurrects" the method, and gives it an entertaining presentation!

Karrell Fox had a neat way of "not telling" them, when they asked where he got a cute bit. He would say, "I got it at Martinka's! (For you young fellows, Martinka's was a magic shop about a hundred years ago!)

I really enjoyed that weekend with Jerry Andrus! He always "thought outside the box"! As my dear friend, Jerry Jay would say, "He was a mentsch, and also a maven!

You are very fortunate to have been his friend for ten years!
Dougini
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On Dec 24, 2013, Dougini wrote:
...I got the book, "Hold Out Miracles". That is the cleanest C&R I have EVER seen! No "moves", no special "coiling", none of that. Simple. Show the rope, fold in half, cut. Then immediately throw the cut pieces to an audience member. It instantly is restored!
Doug


Nobody commented on this. I've been told, "That's impossible!" Hey, maybe I'm wrong.

Doug
JayF
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2014, Dougini wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 24, 2013, Dougini wrote:
...I got the book, "Hold Out Miracles". That is the cleanest C&R I have EVER seen! No "moves", no special "coiling", none of that. Simple. Show the rope, fold in half, cut. Then immediately throw the cut pieces to an audience member. It instantly is restored!
Doug


Nobody commented on this. I've been told, "That's impossible!" Hey, maybe I'm wrong.

Doug


Or maybe not. I don't have the "Hold Out Miracles" book, and I have not seen that routine. However, what you describe does sound very clean. Smile

I just looked online and I see that there is a DVD by Alan Greenberg on the Hold-Out that includes a cut and restored rope routine. I wonder if it is the same routine as what is in the Mishell book. A pdf of the Mishell book comes with the Greenberg DVD.

Anyway, Doug, thanks for mentioning that routine!

Jay

Jay
Dougini
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My pleasure, Jay! I have fooled magicians with that! I made my own holdout in 1977 and still have it today! I use it mainly for C&R Rope. Smile

Doug
John Long
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Doug

Thanks for mentioning that book - I've been considering it for some time.

Yet, isn't the reset an issue?

FWIW: a TT can accomplish essentially the same "look"

John
Dick Oslund
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The late Will Lindhorst, of St. Louis, MO, sold "something" called the "Vanishing Bird Cage" rope trick.

The late Harold Denhard, of Chicago, IL told me that he had done the effect at a magic club meeting, long before the Bill Neff Rope Trick had been sold by Percy Abbott.

I have the mimeographed ad sheet from Lindhorst. Denhard wrote a book, published by Magic Inc. I don't have a copy, but, I think it was calleld, "How To Do Rope Tricks".

The effect is most magical! I tried it out, but decided it was impractical for use in a school assembly program.

I started using the "One Two One" rope trick in 1971 when I produced the "PUZZLING ENVIRONMENT" program for North Dakota State University. Frances Marshall published my program in the "Success Book" series.

Using the "One Two One" principle I could achieve almost the same effect! I still do it occasionally.
Dick Oslund
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P.S.
I almost forgot. If I used the "addition" to the basic effect, I could show the "two pieces" separate.
inhumaninferno
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The One Two One dusts off some memories. I think I picked that up at Fabjance Studios way back when...
Dick Oslund
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On Dec 18, 2014, inhumaninferno wrote:
The One Two One dusts off some memories. I think I picked that up at Fabjance Studios way back when...


Yes! It appears to be a "sleeper". It's very good visual effect.

In 1970, I was writing a lecture program on the environment for the State University of North Dakota, and had decided to use magic to illustrate the lecture. Others had used magic tricks before, to illustrate a lecture, but no one (to my knowledge) had ever written up and published a complete script. I roughed out an outline, and had made notes about possible props that might "work".

I conferred with friend Neil Foster at Abbotts. I was planning to make three major points in the lecture to "create an awareness", and "foster a concern" about environmental pollution, and wanted a quick visual prop that would catch student's attention, and, illustrate the three points: Everything is connected to everything else! Everything has to go somewhere! and Everyone can do something!

Neil suggested the One Two One. I had not seen it. He demonstrated it. It was perfect for my needs! I used it, that upcoming season, and, it was so effective, I adapted the effect and lines to fit my basic program. I've used it ever since.

Both the prop itself, and the effect it produces, fit very well into my criteria for performance.

I can use the principle for a visual "transformation", a "production", and a "cut & restoration"! (Not all in the same show.)

Interesting sidebar: Karrell Fox, a couple years later, showed me an "improvement" he (thought that) he had made. I said, "Karrell!, That's in the original instructions on page 2! Bob Cervas suggested it, and Don Tanner, wrote it up!" Karrell didn't want to believe me, until I showed him the printed instructions! (Even members of the Secret Six, can have "disagreements"!!!)
Theodore Lawton
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Okay- I'm a total schnoob, but I perform the one cut method right out of Mark Wilson's CCIM and always get great reactions.

........there is a very real time out here.............


Okay- I've been laughing for the last 10 minutes because the first time I wrote that last sentence it said,"I always get great rections." Smile Smile Smile Smile

I'm only sharing that with you because you're my friends! I trust you all for some reason!


But anyway...

I have lots of things to research here, thanks to you all, but this one really does work. It was one of the first "real" magic ticks I ever learned. I do it every time I visit the children's hospital and at every close up/birthday party gig- with a breakaway wand for kids. Lots of great stuff here.
Magic is the bacon in the breakfast of life.

............................................

God bless you and have a magical day!
tgold65
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I just stumbled on this thread today and am surprised no one mentioned Mac King's Other Rope Trick. This is a do as I do C&R routine where the spectator succeeds in restoring his rope and is shocked when the knot on his rope slides off the rope, just like for the magician. It is truly amazing as you are expecting the spectator to fail, as we have been trained to see that happen by so many bad magicians. But of course, Mac is an amazing pro, and the audience reaction to the spectator rope being restored is priceless.

I have the routine from his lecture notes for a lecture he gave back in the 90's at Estes Park Colorado and thought that it was a treasure that only a few of us would ever get to perform since Mac does not lecture much, if at all. However, now that same routine is immortalized in digital form as part of the Penguin Magic lecture series. I highly recommend it.
JayF
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On Dec 21, 2014, tgold65 wrote:
I just stumbled on this thread today and am surprised no one mentioned Mac King's Other Rope Trick. This is a do as I do C&R routine where the spectator succeeds in restoring his rope and is shocked when the knot on his rope slides off the rope, just like for the magician. It is truly amazing as you are expecting the spectator to fail, as we have been trained to see that happen by so many bad magicians. But of course, Mac is an amazing pro, and the audience reaction to the spectator rope being restored is priceless.

I have the routine from his lecture notes for a lecture he gave back in the 90's at Estes Park Colorado and thought that it was a treasure that only a few of us would ever get to perform since Mac does not lecture much, if at all. However, now that same routine is immortalized in digital form as part of the Penguin Magic lecture series. I highly recommend it.



I forgot to mention that routine, and I performed it for years! Mac's routine is based upon a routine of Shigeo Takagi's that you can find in the Kaufman book on his magic. I performed the Takagi routine until I discovered Mac's routine.

So, why don't I still perform it? Well, I think it's because I already do two rope routines in most family shows: rainbow ropes and professor's nightmare. I guess I kind of think two rope routines is enough. And, I discovered Roberto Giobbi's cut-and-restored routine and began to perform that in adult shows. So, Mac's routine just kind of disappeared from my repertoire.

I'm really glad you reminded me about this routine. Maybe I'll dust it off again. Smile

Jay
TrickyRicky
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Check out Eric Lewis cut and restored routine. It's in his lecture notes.
Ricky
Dick Oslund
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Hey Ricky...
I gophered for Eric Lewis in the very early '70a when he lectured at Magic Inc. He had some clever stuff, --but, I cannot remember him doing a c&r rope!!! As an old rope cutter (since 1946) I like to be "up" on anything "different". Are his notes available?


Hey Jay F....
I can empathize! I know so many rope bits, but, I am never satisfied! Rope is such a VERSATILE prop! It can be used in production, vanish, transposition, transformation, restoration, penetration, in escapes, juggling, ETC. Packs small and light, mostly angle proof, little if any reset, versatile (any audience) no table needed, visible prop, recognizable prop, visual effects, spot adaptable, ETC. I feel like one of those cardicians!!! (Here's another way to do the four ace trick.!)

About 45 years ago, I got "ruthless". I cut out all but the strongest material. I remembered a remark by Jay Marshall. He said, "Once you have the act set, the next thing to do is start editing.

George Sands was in the same "predicament" at one time. He was lecturing at Abbott's. Greg asked me to gopher for him. He was on for over an hour, and had done some great stuff. He started into the Bachelors Needle Threading. Then, he started on variations! After the third or fourth, I sneaked quietly on the platform and whispered, "George! Great Stuff, but, they're reaching for their wallets to buy notes! QUIT, and get the money! He did, --and he got it!
JayF
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Hi Mr. Oslund,

I think my love of rope magic goes back to when I was a kid and my grandfather taught me how to tie some knots (square, bowline, etc.). Also, my grandfather took me to the very first magic shop I ever visited. One of the three tricks he bought me was "My Favorite Rope Trick," the Professor's Nightmare.

My interest in magic dwindled when I became a teenager. My senior year in college I discovered that one of my dorm mates was a magician. Talking tricks with him is what rekindled my interest. When I first got back into magic, two tricks that I still remembered how to do from when I was a kid were the basic cut-and-restored rope and "My Favorite Rope Trick." I even entertained the idea of putting together an act featuring magic with rope. I was going to call it "It's Knot Possible," or "It's Knot Impossible," or "It's Knot Magic," or something like that.

I never put together that rope act. I do perform at least two rope routines in almost every stand-up show I do. While I do mainly card tricks when I'm strolling, I always have the PN ropes with me as well.

Did I read somewhere that you have a connection to Louisiana? I'm from Louisiana. I was born in Bastrop, and I grew up in West Monroe and Ruston. My master's degree is from the University of Louisiana at Monroe. My parents still live in a tiny town called Monterey in Louisiana.

I'd like to say again what an honor it is to correspond with you via the Café!

Jay
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