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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Scam School Exposure (41 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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What's to prove? He regularly exposed people he considered to be competitors, particularly in the field of escapes. (You can read all about it in any of the major biographies.) And you know very well that he was very much like Randi when it came to exposing those he considered to be fraudulent mediums and psychics.

I thought you didn't approve of that type of thing.

But if you want to play magic history with me- go ahead.

And if you want a list, you can start here. It's followed by MANY references. These are imitators who he either threatened with legal action or actually exposed:

http://www.geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/Houdini_imitators
Slim King
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Love the list ... ..and I'm glad there are no exposures in it!!! Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
mastermindreader
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No, there are no exposures in the list. But the article (as well as all the major biographies) makes it clear that Houdini did, in fact, engage in exposure of his rivals.

And surely you remember the number he did on Mina Cranston (Margery)? And it appears that he also planted false evidence to discredit her.
Slim King
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Quote:
On Oct 17, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
No, there are no exposures in the list. But the article (as well as all the major biographies) makes it clear that Houdini did, in fact, engage in exposure of his rivals.

And surely you remember the number he did on Mina Cranston (Margery)? And it appears that he also planted false evidence to discredit her.

No .. I don't go back that far... sorry....
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
mastermindreader
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Nor do I, Dave. I just read the history and the biographies before spouting off uninformed opinions as facts.
bishthemagish
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Houdini exposed magic secrets? Nope. He wrote a book called the right way to do wrong and this was about gambling. He also wrote up false methods of his escape techniques but I don't consider that exposing. Most (if not all) the books that Houdini wrote - some one else ghost wrote them.

Most of the Houdini biographies are not that good. As they don't tell the real Houdini story. If you want to buy into the BS that has been written about Houdini. Feel free.

By the way I talked to Jack and Anne Gwynne about Houdini time and time again. My dad also met and talked with Mrs. Houdini. Who was upset at the junk that was written about him after his death by magicians.

She did not mention that bad Houdini movie that involved Dunninger as the advisor.
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mastermindreader
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Houdini routinely exposed the methods of his competitors.
bishthemagish
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Nope.

Have you met anyone that knew Houdini?

I Have Jack and Anne Gwynne. Dorney Dornfield.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Steve_Mollett
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Whatever...
http://sustainablejill.com/wp-content/up......tion.jpg

I guess the third part of Houdini's full-evening show was a myth--he really didn't perform it.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Pop Haydn
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Well, once we've all agreed that we need to bell the cat, what's next?

Maybe we should form a society of ethical magicians, and not let anyone in that we consider an exposer? Maybe we can all take an oath or something, and get all the agents and bookers to only hire members of our group...
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Nov 29, 2014, bishthemagish wrote:
Nope.

Have you met anyone that knew Houdini?

I Have Jack and Anne Gwynne. Dorney Dornfield.


Yes. I know/knew several who new Houdini well, including Walter Gibson and Dai Vernon.

You cavalierly dismiss the biographical material that supports what I wrote, simply by stating you know people who knew Houdini? You might have just asked them if Houdini exposed his competitors? I'm sure they would have told you.
Pop Haydn
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Http://www.geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/Houdini_imitators

In 1904 Houdini exposed Carl Mysto's coffin escape and then performed his own.
Terrible Wizard
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Well, you could have all magic books and effects sold only through membership organisations, such as IBM or Magic Circle etc. Only registered members in good standing get advertised to and can purchase; only registered members in good standing can sell. Anyone caught exposing or any other unethical practices gets booted from organisation - can neither sell nor buy until, if, re-instated. All organisations would share their membership lists with each other.

Or, magic creators and magic sellers could require proof of membership before selling.

Ain't gonna happen, but it's possible.
Pop Haydn
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No, it isn't possible. It has been tried for 100 years.
Terrible Wizard
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Fair enough (in practical terms, not strictly). It's not the idea that's impossible, though, it's the people. If magic creators and clubs wanted to they could be stricter about such a thing. But it's not as profitable.

Or, magic creators could only sell in a highly selective fashion, ie to those they trusted not to expose. Same problem, though. Not enough income.

If such a policy did exist, would it be supported?
Pop Haydn
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I wouldn't want it. I don't want a board of amateurs judging my work and telling me what is acceptable magic performance.

Let's have a painter's guild! Now, only works that are approved by other painters will be allowed!

Just keep moving forward.

Make art.
mastermindreader
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I've got to agree with Pop.
Terrible Wizard
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Why are amateurs judging anything of meaning in this process? Join the organisation via some form of assessment (as already exists like the magic circle), agree to some sort of ethical conduct that includes non-exposure, if you expose then you are kicked out the organisation - your ability to buy/sell is removed. I fail to see how judging even comes into it. And if having amateurs in organisations bothers you make the entry requirements, or judge requirements, include professionality. Easy. Doctors, teacher, lawyers can do it ...

And what about the second separate tack: So neither of you would be willing to only sell your creations to a more select audience if it meant better control of exposure? I don't believe that.
silvercup
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I don't understand why a Magician would sell any of their work, unless they are very poor at performance. Most that do, aren't, so that puzzles me.
mastermindreader
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Silvercup- If they didn't you probably wouldn't be a magician today.

If Henry Hay, Harlan Tarbell, Ted Annemann and Corinda hadn't sold their work I'd probably be a bartender or a taxi driver.

But "selling" is a far cry from gratuitous YouTube exposure.
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