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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Question about the statement of faith required (31 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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SDMoore1
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Question about the SoF required.

When I think "Word" capital-W Word... I think in terms of the beginning of John.
I also believe (personally) that God may speak through someone, even if only at a specific moment.

Does that not preclude the SoF? I do believe the Bible to be the word of God, but not the "only". I can understand the intent (ex: writings by Alistair Begg may be for God, but those writings aren't biblically infallible), but am struggling with understanding.

Thanks in advance.
Mike Maturen
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I personally believe that the statement of faith is too limiting.

By it, none of the Apostles, 1st century Christians, or even any Christians up until the 2nd century could have joined, since there was no compiled Bible at that point. Until then, it was ALL transmitted by word of mouth, and through Apostolic teaching.

Since Catholics believe that the "word of God" ALSO included Church Tradition (capital T), this statement, then, would by it's very nature preclude any Catholics from joining.

I joined anyway...because I acknowledged the expanded definition in my heart.

i WOULD, however, like to hear from any of the official Leadership of the FCM on this issue.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
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mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
I personally believe that the statement of faith is too limiting.

By it, none of the Apostles, 1st century Christians, or even any Christians up until the 2nd century could have joined, since there was no compiled Bible at that point. Until then, it was ALL transmitted by word of mouth, and through Apostolic teaching.

Since Catholics believe that the "word of God" ALSO included Church Tradition (capital T), this statement, then, would by it's very nature preclude any Catholics from joining.

I joined anyway...because I acknowledged the expanded definition in my heart.

i WOULD, however, like to hear from any of the official Leadership of the FCM on this issue.


Write them and ask.

http://fcm.org/usa/contact-us/
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
themagiciansapprentice
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Mike - you left .... so why respond on this forum??

SD Moore 1 - are you a member? if so ask on the FCM forum, but if you have issues then maybe the FCM is not for you. I read it through and saw nothing to stop me joining. We are a Christian oganisation that is non-denominational that can promote the love of God through creative arts. Other Christian organisations do exist that we could have joined, if we were unable to accept the SoF.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, SDMoore1 wrote:
Question about the SoF required.

When I think "Word" capital-W Word... I think in terms of the beginning of John.
I also believe (personally) that God may speak through someone, even if only at a specific moment.

Does that not preclude the SoF? I do believe the Bible to be the word of God, but not the "only". I can understand the intent (ex: writings by Alistair Begg may be for God, but those writings aren't biblically infallible), but am struggling with understanding.

Thanks in advance.

So are you proposing that a person today can speak "the inspired infallible Word of God" at a specific moment apart from quoting the Bible?
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Mike Maturen
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Apprentice...I don't recall the forum rules saying that only FCM members can read and respond to posts on this forum.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
robvh
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I would agree that the Statement of Faith as written has a distinct "sola scriptura" flavour. I'll just leave it at that rather than start a discussion about how "sola scriptura" is both demonstrably illogical and unbiblical.
Terry Holley
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On Apr 4, 2014, robvh wrote:
I would agree that the Statement of Faith as written has a distinct "sola scriptura" flavour. I'll just leave it at that rather than start a discussion about how "sola scriptura" is both demonstrably illogical and unbiblical.

For some reason that just doesn't seem like you left it at that.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
themagiciansapprentice
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Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
Apprentice...I don't recall the forum rules saying that only FCM members can read and respond to posts on this forum.


that seems to miss a major reason for this forum and Café ... you are attacking an organisation again after barely being a member

how is that Christian?
how is that going to help your cause?
how is that going to help Catholics be FCM members?

yes, you may have had a bad experience ... but we have heard little about it
instead we get snide comments and vague allegations

quite simply, you'll just stop innocent FCMers using their own page on this Café
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Mike Maturen
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Apprentice:

Nobody is attacking an organization. I am making a statement of fact about the statement of faith. It has been concurred by another poster.

Yes, I had a bad experience...I purposely did not name the person that attacked me because I believe THAT would have been unChristlike. I didn't even mention that issue in this thread...YOU did.

I am done posting here.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
robvh
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Sorry about the repeated posts above. My connection was flaky so I returned to the page and hit Submit again. Apparently the outgoing signal was fine, I just wasn't getting anything back! Unfortunately, it's too late for me to delete the messages.
Mike Maturen
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LOL Robvh!

The multiple posts will also sometimes happen if you hit the "back" button.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
themagiciansapprentice
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And of course you posted again ...

two people from the same background of faith is NOT proving anything

has anyone considered what the founders of our organisation had to go through, to distill our SoF down to three simple lines ?? that must have been really tough

I would hate to try to get different denominations to agree to compose a SoF - but we have one that most accept (including many Catholics I've spoken to in the past week), so why change it after 56 years ??
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
SDMoore1
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Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
I personally believe that the statement of faith is too limiting.

By it, none of the Apostles, 1st century Christians, or even any Christians up until the 2nd century could have joined, since there was no compiled Bible at that point. Until then, it was ALL transmitted by word of mouth, and through Apostolic teaching.

Since Catholics believe that the "word of God" ALSO included Church Tradition (capital T), this statement, then, would by it's very nature preclude any Catholics from joining.

I joined anyway...because I acknowledged the expanded definition in my heart.

i WOULD, however, like to hear from any of the official Leadership of the FCM on this issue.


Great point. I had not even contemplated the Catholicism angle. Very legit point.
SDMoore1
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Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, themagiciansapprentice wrote:
Mike - you left .... so why respond on this forum??

I'm new here. Certainly did not intend to start a fight, nor create friction.


Quote:
SD Moore 1 - are you a member? if so ask on the FCM forum,

No, I'm not a member.
I'm asking here, as I'm new here, saw this "room" and hoped my question would be appropriate.

Quote:
but if you have issues then maybe the FCM is not for you.

Maybe FCM is not for me. I don't know, but didn't see my question as having issues.

Quote:
I read it through and saw nothing to stop me joining.

I am a Christian who does not always agree with ideas others who self-label as Christian espouse. We all must answer for ourselves, as I see matters of faith and grace.

Quote:
We are a Christian oganisation that is non-denominational that can promote the love of God through creative arts. Other Christian organisations do exist that we could have joined, if we were unable to accept the SoF.


What are these other Christian magician groups? I'm not trying to be controversial about FCM's SoF, I just thought someone here would have good insight, since this area is the FCM area of the forum. If I've upset anyone, I apologize; such was not my intention. Sorry.
SDMoore1
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Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, Terry Holley wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, SDMoore1 wrote:
Question about the SoF required.

When I think "Word" capital-W Word... I think in terms of the beginning of John.
I also believe (personally) that God may speak through someone, even if only at a specific moment.

Does that not preclude the SoF? I do believe the Bible to be the word of God, but not the "only". I can understand the intent (ex: writings by Alistair Begg may be for God, but those writings aren't biblically infallible), but am struggling with understanding.

Thanks in advance.

So are you proposing that a person today can speak "the inspired infallible Word of God" at a specific moment apart from quoting the Bible?


I am proposing an engaged Heavenly Father. As my orig post stated, I'm looking at the matter through the lens of John 1:1-6. My personal belief is there is no limit to God's expression.
SDMoore1
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Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, robvh wrote:
I would agree that the Statement of Faith as written has a distinct "sola scriptura" flavour. I'll just leave it at that rather than start a discussion about how "sola scriptura" is both demonstrably illogical and unbiblical.

LOL..
It does appear to have that flavor.
SDMoore1
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Quote:
On Apr 5, 2014, themagiciansapprentice wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 4, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
Apprentice...I don't recall the forum rules saying that only FCM members can read and respond to posts on this forum.


that seems to miss a major reason for this forum and Café ... you are attacking an organisation again after barely being a member

how is that Christian?
how is that going to help your cause?
how is that going to help Catholics be FCM members?

yes, you may have had a bad experience ... but we have heard little about it
instead we get snide comments and vague allegations

quite simply, you'll just stop innocent FCMers using their own page on this Café


This must be carry over from other threads, and another time of which I was unaware. I did not see his comment in this thread as "attacking" anything (anyone), nor as being snide.

Is this room something of a "flashpoint"?
SDMoore1
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On Apr 5, 2014, robvh wrote:
Sorry about the repeated posts above. My connection was flaky so I returned to the page and hit Submit again. Apparently the outgoing signal was fine, I just wasn't getting anything back! Unfortunately, it's too late for me to delete the messages.


LOL..my issues spring from using an iPad that sometimes "auto corrects" incorrectly! Grrrr...
:oD
jamiedoyle
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SDMoore - I am curious as to where you currently attend church - not because I want to bash that particular church... I'm not into that kind of thing.
Just curious as to who you are, what your background is and what church you identify with. This may give us a frame of reference in this discussion.
Jamie Doyle

jamiedoyle.com
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