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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Question about the statement of faith required (31 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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SDMoore1
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Quote:
On Apr 17, 2014, jamiedoyle wrote:
SDMoore - I am curious as to where you currently attend church - not because I want to bash that particular church... I'm not into that kind of thing.
Just curious as to who you are, what your background is and what church you identify with. This may give us a frame of reference in this discussion.


I am very Protestant.
jamiedoyle
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Very Pretestant is too variable... can you be specific?
Jamie Doyle

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jamiedoyle
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My bad spelling... let me try that again:

Very Protestant is too variable... can you be specific?
Jamie Doyle

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SDMoore1
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On Apr 17, 2014, jamiedoyle wrote:
Very Pretestant is too variable... can you be specific?


My church membership isn't germaine to the question, as I see it. If I say "Baptist" or if I say "Methodist" or "Lutheran" (or anything else, for that matter), that would change the answer?

"Protestant" is a good enough frame of reference...or should be. If it isn't, perhaps we should begin there -why would anyone think it isn't?

I'm not here to make trouble. Oddly, there doesn't appear to be an active chapter near where I live, so perhaps this is moot anyway. I thought it a good question.
jamiedoyle
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I think that it absolutely effects the answer... but you seem intent on not letting anyone here know who you are or anyting about your background.
My intent was to try and help - but I will not atttempt to belabour this any longer since there seems to be no interest on your end to provide any information so that you might be helped.
Beyond that if you choose to make the issue moot because there is no local chapter near you - then so be it. Perhaps you will come upon the answer you seek in a different way.
Jamie Doyle

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MagicBus
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Our pastor yesterday mentioned in his Easter message that there are 2.5 billion people in the world who indicate they are believers in Jesus Christ (I attend Lighthouse Community Church in Kalamazoo, Michigan www.DiscoverLighthouseChurch.com a church that has been wonderful for my wife and me. This is part of the Wesleyan denomination- same denominational college -IWU- where the FCM convention in Marion, Indiana was held prior to moving to Nashville). This enormous number quoted by our pastor made me think about what exactly is a "Christ follower"?

One of pastors I enjoy listening to on youtube is Francis Chan- there are lots of his challenging messages posted there. You can download for free his entire book "multiply: disciples making disciples" at www.multiplymovement.com This book "Multiply" contains a good summary on a number of basic issues: Living as a Disciple Maker, Living as the Church, How to Study the Bible, etc.. and is material designed specifically to lead/help disciple others.

The simple phrase "Becoming a disciple of Jesus is obeying His call to follow" begins the discussion in the book above on pages 17 through 25 (of Part I "What Is a Disciple?").

It would be my hope that the FCM is made up of "Christ followers", active disciples who in following Jesus, at a minimum, try to live their lives lined up with Matthew 22:37-40. I am so far from perfect, but forgiven, and it has helped me to keep the above in mind. Smile Love and serve God, love and serve others.

By the way, a belated Happy Easter everyone, He is risen, He is risen indeed!

In Kalamazoo, we started our own FCM Chapter about 2 years ago, has been a hoot. Our next meeting is the second Saturday in May, we are doing an evangelistic Gospel magic and chalk art "outreach" event at Evergreen South housing complex- that was packed out when we did it last year Smile.
MagicBus
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Just a brief follow up- I first became involved with the FCM since about 1965, and I worked for the one of the first presidents of the FCM, the wonderful John de Vries. Most of the early membership was denominationally Baptist, Mennonite, Seven Day Adventist, Assembly of God, Church of God, independent "Bible", and Christian Reformed. Quite a good variety of Christ followers! John's son David became a pastor at the large Wealthy Street Baptist Church in Grand Rapids.
SDMoore1
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On Apr 21, 2014, jamiedoyle wrote:
I think that it absolutely effects the answer... but you seem intent on not letting anyone here know who you are or anyting about your background.
My intent was to try and help - but I will not atttempt to belabour this any longer since there seems to be no interest on your end to provide any information so that you might be helped.
Beyond that if you choose to make the issue moot because there is no local chapter near you - then so be it. Perhaps you will come upon the answer you seek in a different way.


This seems to be a "bristly" room in the Café. The focus shouldn't be on my church. The answer to the question should have nothing to do with the questioner's background, but should be an answer able to stand on its own merit in truth. The question posed is pretty clear. Why you're compelled to make this about me seems (to this newcomer) to be about par for the course in this particular room. Sad. I would have expected just the opposite to be the case.

I'm Protestant. Why that isn't enough for you is a notion you've avoided explaining.
Good day, sir.
SDMoore1
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On Apr 21, 2014, MagicBus wrote:
It would be my hope that the FCM is made up of "Christ followers", active disciples who in following Jesus, at a minimum, try to live their lives lined up with Matthew 22:37-40. I am so far from perfect, but forgiven, and it has helped me to keep the above in mind. Smile Love and serve God, love and serve others.

By the way, a belated Happy Easter everyone, He is risen, He is risen indeed!


+1
!!
:o)
Danny Kazam
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Quote:
On Apr 21, 2014, jamiedoyle wrote:
I think that it absolutely effects the answer... but you seem intent on not letting anyone here know who you are or anyting about your background.
My intent was to try and help - but I will not atttempt to belabour this any longer since there seems to be no interest on your end to provide any information so that you might be helped.
Beyond that if you choose to make the issue moot because there is no local chapter near you - then so be it. Perhaps you will come upon the answer you seek in a different way.



I'm sorry but I find it rather disturbing to insist that someone reveal the church they attend. Do we NOT all belong to GOD!!! What difference does it make if someone is Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic, Lutheran, etc.? It is NOT important what denomination we are.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Mike Maturen
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The ONLY reason it would make a difference to me is that--as a Catholic--I believe that the Bible (God's infallible Word) is NOT the only authority. Since the Bible didn't even EXIST until the second or third century, we understand and teach that the teaching of the Apostles (Holy Tradition---capital "T") is also authoritative...and is important to the faith. Therefore, a restrictive "Statement of Faith" that requires assent that the Bible is the ONLY authoritative source of faith effectively cuts out the largest Christian Church in the world.
Mike Maturen
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Terry Holley
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On Apr 23, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
The ONLY reason it would make a difference to me is that--as a Catholic--I believe that the Bible (God's infallible Word) is NOT the only authority. Since the Bible didn't even EXIST until the second or third century, we understand and teach that the teaching of the Apostles (Holy Tradition---capital "T") is also authoritative...and is important to the faith. Therefore, a restrictive "Statement of Faith" that requires assent that the Bible is the ONLY authoritative source of faith effectively cuts out the largest Christian Church in the world.


Or as some would say, the ONLY Christian Church in the world (unless the Orthodox Church is given a hall pass)!

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/wor......282.html
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Mike Maturen
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LOL Terry...or at least the ORIGINAL! Smile

Okay...no flaming boys and girls...........
Mike Maturen
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jamiedoyle
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So Danny:
What church do you go to?
Jamie Doyle

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robvh
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
The ONLY reason it would make a difference to me is that--as a Catholic--I believe that the Bible (God's infallible Word) is NOT the only authority. Since the Bible didn't even EXIST until the second or third century, we understand and teach that the teaching of the Apostles (Holy Tradition---capital "T") is also authoritative...and is important to the faith. Therefore, a restrictive "Statement of Faith" that requires assent that the Bible is the ONLY authoritative source of faith effectively cuts out the largest Christian Church in the world.


You nailed it, Mike. The Bible simply CANNOT be the SOLE authority given that it didn't even exist when Christ founded His church!

Ironically, such a statement of faith not only excludes the largest Christian Church in the world but it's actually an anti-Biblical statement since we can find in the Bible multiple instances where the apostles instructed the early Christians to stay faithful to the traditions passed on to them. This is precisely where Catholic Traditions come from including the sacraments and the liturgy.

The statement of faith needs some updating. But the danger of going down that road is that it ultimately leads you back into the Catholic Church. That's the danger to satan anyway who I'm sure much prefers fighting a body divided.
Mike Maturen
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Rob: I would agree that the statement of faith needs updating, perhaps to read simply "We agree that the Bible is "inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16).

This statement is 100% Biblical, cannot be argued, and is inclusive to all Christian Churches.
Mike Maturen
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Danny Kazam
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On Apr 25, 2014, jamiedoyle wrote:
So Danny:
What church do you go to?


A good portion of them. Smile
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Danny Kazam
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On Apr 27, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
Rob: I would agree that the statement of faith needs updating, perhaps to read simply "We agree that the Bible is "inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16).

This statement is 100% Biblical, cannot be argued, and is inclusive to all Christian Churches.


You are right (imo). I know I have made the mistake of thinking the Bible was the only authority, but the Bible never claims exclusive rights. However, anything that contradicts what is said in our scriptures both OT and NT will always be suspicious to me.

I think a more thought out statement of faith could be created for FCM, or...maybe none at all? Does FCM really need a statement of faith? Just thinking out loud again.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
jamiedoyle
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Wondering:
Who, in this conversation is a member of the FCM?

I'll start: I am.
Jamie Doyle

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Mike Maturen
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My membership just lapsed...due partially to some issues that I articulated in another thread...that I don't need or want to re-hash here.

I think I might be persuaded to stick around...but the SoF has become a bit of a sticky point to me. To assent to it would be to ignore its implications and/or lie. Can't do that.
Mike Maturen
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