Apparently I have upset people by asking questions...i will not be apologising for asking those questions...

again, who put out a remotely controlled small wooden square pendulum box, with a single drawer first?

the tech is different between SCs box and Outlaw's...just like the whole color cube thing, so my question is purely aimed at being open/honest/interested

i do not know the answer...hence the question...

Iain can I ask you a question please? One which was conveniently avoided several times by the person who objects to Roth coming out with a smaller "more affordable and available (as the SM is OOP)" version of his larger drawer that rings a bell. And yes Roth came out with it 3 years before.
Which by the way he has full rights to make it a triangle shape next.

What if anything is novel about the size, shape, method or routine that "anyone could claim it's their intellectual property and should be exclusively protected"?
Because that's what's being argued.

Yes Eddie, I saw that movie when it came out and was genuinely creeped out. Vent dolls can be just as creepy as seance dolls and that movie proves it.

It's quite clear Roth did this years ago.

It's also quite clear that it is not a pendulum box.

It is a "Mini Spiritus", utility cabinet that does several things, one being a pendulum effect !

She, is just another in the product line of Outlaw Effects !

Thanks you Zilla that's also another factual point. I think we are now beating a dead horse but I would like a response from Iain regarding my question. I don't think there is any contest who came before we just need to move on this thread is derailed.

i've not argued that point - I didn't even make that point...i know nothing about that kind of thing...

ALL I've asked was for proof/providence/evidence that was all...it was to help the conversation along, and to stop any arguments happening...

we're not arguing technology obviously...just over who first brought out a small square pendulum box...that was all!

Ok so we can move on now? The initial claim was ridiculous and it created the argument which is the result for you asking your question they are connected. It's all good.

This was my initial question..

so by similar, I meant "a pendulum box" - sorry if I wasn't clear enough...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and questions to allow discussion regarding all of this. No one needs to get upset. Its just not fair when people (not you) drag someones name through the mud and make it personal. Then can't back up their claim as Roth has done.

Roth shouldn't have felt he had to come out to defend his position against this unprofessional type of approach. It was disrespectful to all of us, regardless of the situation at hand. It just created in fighting amongst good people. The penny is in the other room

Thanks Iain for understanding.

I think you are confused Iain, because it has been repeated over and over here !

It is not a pendulum box, it's a Spiritus utility box that does many things !

And, it is a design based on Rick's own prop.
All the way down to the drawer and coils of the original SM !

I think it's all articulately, detailed and documented in your thread Zilla. It's a lot of content to absorb and easy to miss the root.
Hey ultimately no harm no foul is the main thing.
It's been a good post Zilla I guess size really doesn't matter that's a joke people.

I thought we'd moved on from this two days ago - Maybe you might consider starting a whole other thread to discuss/argue the origins and provenance of various effects - I don't believe that is what this thread was intended for. Cant we please just get back to enjoying a friendly discussion about the performance possibilities and reviews of Outl@w's latest offering and leave the rest out of it?

Ok, there is an effect released by Unleash Your Dreams, where you have a dark black liquid captured inside a clear liquid - all inside a glass bottle with a cork lid...

this black substance dances and moves when you *do something unseen* and you can make it move around inside the bottle...

what I'd like to see is, if that black substance and clear substance could be put inside a clear orb instead, and somehow set on top of a box...and then it be controlled by other means...if you then engraved letters on top of the box you could make the black substance dance and point at the letters...

I don't post here that often, but this thread looks too fun to pass up!

That remotely activated Ouija from instructables is closer to design and function to the Witchboard by Peter Loughran.
Who, I should mention had no objections to the Spiritus Magnus back in the day of it's release.
Because even he saw the obvious distinctions, which seem to elude so many here.

Does the Spiritus Magnus not count as a small easily portable "pendulum box" with a drawer to hold other stuff?
From what I'm hearing, I think most people see similarities, while only a select few see significant differences.
I'm personally not sure making a smaller box, with several features absent makes an entirely novel product.
If the distinctions is entirely founded upon the fact that Jon's box was smaller and exclusively triggered pk in a pendulum, then
I'm not convinced there is enough providence to justify this canard.

The way I see it is simple. If Jon had been the first to come up with the Spiritus Magnus, and the roles had been reversed...
I doubt any issue would be made if Jon decided to miniaturize his own concept.

However, no one is denying the similarities. Obviously the Spiritas looks and functions incredibly similar to Jon's device.
Enough to merit the attention it has raised absolutely. But, even if Rick had decided to copy Jon's device with intent and malice, reproducing it exactly (As some seem to suggest). I think many feel "ripping off" Jon would still be permissible, as the CONCEPT was not Jon's in the first place.

Many seem to think Rick has permission to play with ANY variation on the theme of "wooden box with a drawer designed for PK."
In the abstract that's all these devices are aren't they? Getting hung up on pendulums and planchettes is silly.
Everything else is window dressing.

I'm not making any judgments whatsoever, only playing devil's advocate!

Iain, the FF(dark stuff) inside the clear suspension , could only be drawn to the area gaffed.
Also, I'm not sure how long area the could be triggered to do the attraction by RC !

And, if you get FF on anything, it is a Royal pain to clean up !

Hey Iain what effect is that called? It sounds like my kind of thing. Thanks for letting us know very cool. that's a great idea. Like a crystal ball?

You do know, this was marketed as a desk top toy, before it was released by UYD !
Just in case the thread starts derailing in another direction !

Hey Missmage good to see you here. I think we have covered every angle on this one. It's all been summed up nicely but it's a lot of reading to put it together It's now a dead issue yay!

Magic 8 ball?

Very different devices but I did the WitchBoard video as well.
I also created the static ghost effects that came with it.
Peter Loughran and Sean Bogunia's WitchBoard

Those poor people hahahah!