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Paul S Wingham Inner circle 1378 Posts 
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Fair comments Michael. I don't entirely disagree. Firstly though, I most definitely wouldn't buy this until all the other stuff is resolved. I've never met Gary Jones, but our paths cross frequently online, and I have heard nothing to suggest he is anything other than a good chap. Secondly, when I said the magic world would be dull I probably didn't put it well. My point was that 99% of what comes out is derivative and in most instances only incrementally improves the original concept (at best). If these sorts of increments weren't released, then perhaps some of the leaps forward wouldn't happen. I still think there is a place for things that aren't a leap forward. I say "I think" but I actually mean; there is a place for them, because people buy them and wrongly or rightly, magic is sadly a commercial enterprise for many.
So I guess what I am saying in a rambling way, is you are correct; I don't need this. To be honest, I may not ever buy it, I mean it's not cheap. but then again, I don't really need the next iphone or yet another book, but I'm sure if I don't buy it, someone else will. |
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Michael Jay Regular user Toledo, Ohio 180 Posts
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You don't need to be Jim Steinmeyer to realize it's easier to smudge some ashes on someone as opposed to drawing an X on them. Your audience knows this too. When performed properly, the spectator never even realizes that you touched them. From their perspective, it's fully impossible that the mark could even be there, whether an x from a Sharpie, a smudge of ashes, or even a freshly picked booger. From the advertising blurb for Double Cross: "You're so far ahead the spectators will never remember you coming near them or even touching them." That is precisely how the original is handled and specifically what makes this trick so very powerful. Then again, you probably DO need to be Jim Steinmeyer to understand that. Mike. |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts
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Nice one Mike.
You just took Magicsquared's argument to low post, drop stepped it and then slam dunked the Spalding for an easy two. Boomshakalaka.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 5, 2014, Michael Jay wrote: Yeah, I get it, but one is clearly more impossible than the other. Certainly you've gotten a smudge on yourself without remembering how, but it's unlikely someone wrote an X on your hand without you noticing. Again, this is something a layman intuitively knows. And, for me, I can find many more justifications for using an X. And it doesn't limit me to areas with cigarettes or ashtrays. I know you suggested a fireplace would be a good alternative, but really? "Excuse me while I duck into this fireplace before my next routine..." I mean perhaps someone would say "Why's Pete fiddling around with the fireplace in August?" Or do you just wait until December rolls around and you're about to light a fire? That's convenient. |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts
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No, you merely blaze up a fine cigar and the rest is easy
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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I do it with the soot from the end of my crack pipe.
On one of David Acer's videos he does it with pool cue chalk and he has a good routine with it. The only problem is, if you do it in a pool hall where it's organic, your spectator may assume they could have gotten chalk on their hand at some point earlier. And if you do it outside of the pool hall, then you're the guy who carries around pool cue chalk for no reason. |
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Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts
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I worry about the world of magic becoming static - everyone doing the same stuff. Too late.
Official Thread Killer
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gjmagic Special user UK 974 Posts
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Thank you for everyone's input on this.......my idea wasn't just an X, it was also playing cards, numbers and anything else that would fit onto the gimmick.
As for the the other part of this, Magic Smith had no knowledge of my involvement in this idea so no blame there, and, I'm going to put this down to experience, I have bigger issues in life to deal with and it's only a trick! I'm done now, but thank you for expressing your opinions, time to finish my beer 
Regards, Gary.
MIMC Gold Star
www.garyjonesmagic.com gary@garyjonesmagic.com DVDs/Effects; The Unknown - iCandy - More iCandy 1 & 2 - Dupes - 52 0n 1 Project - 74% Self Working - Flying Tonight - Pocket This - 6 Pack Coins - 6 Pack Cards - Thought Wave - Noted - Duality - Live Lecture Vol 1 - Pseudo Pickpocket - iContact - Shock Twist - Thought of Cards Across Plus - Touched - Colour Diffusion - Look No Hands Wayne Dobson - Automata - Box Pad - No Frills Lecture Notes 1 & 2 - The Ammo - Double Cross - Initial Here - Automata 2 - Black Market - Trick Soup - Automata 3 - Penguin Live Lecture - Upper Hand - Cartoon Capers - At The Table Lecture - Life's a Beach Vol 1 - Life's A Beach Vol 2 - Alas Chris and Jones. |
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Paul S Wingham Inner circle 1378 Posts
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That's the attitude. Life is way way way too short to let magic ever get you down.
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts
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I agree. Life is way too short.
I'm surprised Mark Southworth hasn't been along yet to give us his point of view. Let's hope we see him soon.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts
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I wonder if this will be available in the UK in the near future. I'd love to see how the dirty work is accomplished. It's too expensive to chuck in the bottom drawer IMO.
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Michael Jay Regular user Toledo, Ohio 180 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 5, 2014, Magicsquared wrote: What a layman intuitively knows? The layman intuitively knows that which you allow them to. Fitzkee said it better than I ever could:
"So I must insist again: Shell bottles do not constitute any part of the true secrets of magic. Neither do folding bird cages. Neither do billiard ball shells. Nor Svengali packs. Nor forcing decks. Nor flap slates. Nor pulled threads. Nor folding flowers. Nor any apparatus of any kind. "The real secrets of magic are those whereby the magician is able to influence the mind of the spectator, even in the face of that spectator's definite knowledge that the magician is absolutely unable to do what that spectator ultimately must admit he does do. "Here is a secret! "This skilled magician is an adept at disguise and attention control. He employs physical disguise with his apparatus. He employs psychological disguise-simulation, dissimulation, maneuver, ruse, suggestion and inducement. He exercises absolute control over the attention of his spectator by forestalling it, by catching it relaxed, by dulling it, by scattering it, by diverting it, by distracting it, and by openly moving it away. "He cleverly, skillfully and dexterously mixes the true with the false. With equal facility he convincingly interprets matters to accomplish his own ends. He contrives to so influence the things the spectator perceives that the latter is aware of them as the magician desires. All is built upon an unshakable foundation of naturalness, plausibility and conviction. "Here is real skill! Here are genuine secrets!" - Dariel Fitzkee - Your way is limited to your Sharpie - if you don't have it, you can't do the trick. I, however, can do it anywhere, anytime. But then again, I have a modicum of creativity. I'm sorry that you don't. Mike. |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1990 Posts
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First, hey great Fitzkee quote.
Second, you cannot do "the trick" anytime anywhere. You can do a variation of the trick but it will not involve the startling disappearance of the ink from the magicians hand or the appearance of a drawing on the spectators. Now that is not to take anything away from the ashes/lipstick/whatever version one can do impromptu. It is a great trick. But this particular trick involves some differences that are key to enhancing the effect. The disappearance of what is seemingly permanent ink is stronger than simply rubbing away a substance on ones hand. Most people have gotten ink on their hand and understand the permanence of that state. It's disappearance is a strong effect in itself. Further, the appearance of a hand drawn symbol is stronger than ashes appearing on the spectators palm. Smart spectators will be deduce that the magician sneaked the substance in place. Even if they don't know how, they have a solution to hold on to and that is all that matters (particularly because they are right). But a hand drawn ink symbol is different and more powerful as it is writing and no solution is readily apparent. It leads to a path which has a much greater chance of being a dead end. IMHO, your mileage may vary... Quote: On Aug 6, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Michael Jay Regular user Toledo, Ohio 180 Posts
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You're right. Smart spectators will know that you somehow sneaked it onto their hand, as opposed to the Sharpie where they will believe that it's real magic.
Yep, you're right. My bad. Mike. |
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simon hughes Veteran user London 360 Posts
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I miss Niggler.
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1990 Posts
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Who said anything about real magic? I believe that I stated " a hand drawn ink symbol is different and more powerful as it is writing and no solution is readily apparent. It leads to a path which has a much greater chance of being a dead end."
I'm sorry you missed the point about there being a big difference between an ash smudge and a hand drawn symbol, with one having an obvious and correct solution, while the other one being much less obvious and more convincing but I appreciate you at least admitting I was right. Thanks. Quote: On Aug 6, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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Michael, you need to re-read your Fitzkee. Fitzkee never recommended underestimating spectator's intelligence, but god knows you're not unique in making that mistake around here.
The layman doesn't "intuitively know that which you allow them to." In fact, that's the exact opposite of what "intuitively" means. There is knowledge that a spectator brings to an effect. Let's pretend it wasn't a magic trick. What would you find more puzzling. You're getting ready for bed at night and you find a grey smudge on your palm OR you find an X written on your palm. That's all I'm saying; one is inherently more impossible. To imply that a spectator would only understand that if you "allowed" them to is embarrassing. That's not to say a better performer couldn't get more mileage out of the ashes trick. It's only to say that the greater impossibility of this might appeal to some people, or the convenience of it, or perhaps they see greater presentational possibilities. |
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts
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Have you received yours yet Magicsquared? What's the verdict?
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts
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Considering it was a sellout at a recent magic convention I'm surprised there's no reviews yet.
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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On Aug 7, 2014, pegasus wrote: I'm in LA for work and it's in my PO Box in NYC. As soon as I get back there I'll give an initial review. |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Double Cross by Mark Southworth (From Magic Smith) (121 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Aug 5, 2014 06:58 pm 
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