We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Not working with a full deck. (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
GodOfCards
View Profile
New user
64 Posts

Profile of GodOfCards
Quote:
On Sep 10, 2014, ZachDavenport wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 10, 2014, Atom3339 wrote:
Zach, Actually there are plenty of mathematical effects that don't require a full deck.

Smile

Yes, but there are also a lot that do.


I'd suggest not doing those tricks in this circumstance then.
Glenn Morphew
View Profile
Elite user
Chicago
470 Posts

Profile of Glenn Morphew
In my experience, with the kinds of tricks I perform, it doesn't matter if I have as few as 40 cards in the deck. No one has ever said a word about it in 40 years. But again, that's just my experience with the kinds of tricks I perform.

Before I performed for paying clients I would never even think of doing a trick that "ruined" my deck. Now, I can count on it. I often start the night with a deck that's short 3 or 4 cards.

I've found there are very few absolutes regarding most things in magic. Your own experience of what does and does not work for you personally is all that really matters as long as you have high standards and you're perceptive.

Glenn
Visit www.povmagician.com for
The Rub-a-dub Deluxe Suite
The Morphew One Hand Top Palm
Bob's 3 Shell Boot Camp and more...
Atom3339
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
3224 Posts

Profile of Atom3339
Excellent post, Glenn!
TH

Occupy Your Dream
BarryFernelius
View Profile
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2502 Posts

Profile of BarryFernelius
Quote:
On Sep 12, 2014, RogerTheShrubber wrote:
If you want one single trick where a full deck is a requirement, I'd point to "The Mathematical Card Trick" in Scarne on Card Tricks (trick #33 in the book). I think it's safe to assume that it's not in your repertoire given that you're working with 32-35 and clearly prefer it, but I mention this one because any time I'm doing a trick or two for anyone but kids, I do this one because I'm actually hoping to run into someone who can figure it out. Scarne's intro says (I forget his exact wording, but this is close) that Scarne "always uses it on a mathematically-minded person, and not once has the secret or solution ever been discovered." Nobody ever has in my case, and it's not because of any trememndous skill or performance on my part.


Actually, this trick doesn't require a 52 card deck. It seemed to work with 32 cards, as far as I could tell. I'm guessing it might not work with an ODD number of cards.

I'll do a few more experiments, and I'll report back...
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."

-Pop Haydn
RogerTheShrubber
View Profile
Veteran user
302 Posts

Profile of RogerTheShrubber
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2014, BarryFernelius wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 12, 2014, RogerTheShrubber wrote:
If you want one single trick where a full deck is a requirement, I'd point to "The Mathematical Card Trick" in Scarne on Card Tricks (trick #33 in the book). I think it's safe to assume that it's not in your repertoire given that you're working with 32-35 and clearly prefer it, but I mention this one because any time I'm doing a trick or two for anyone but kids, I do this one because I'm actually hoping to run into someone who can figure it out. Scarne's intro says (I forget his exact wording, but this is close) that Scarne "always uses it on a mathematically-minded person, and not once has the secret or solution ever been discovered." Nobody ever has in my case, and it's not because of any trememndous skill or performance on my part.


Actually, this trick doesn't require a 52 card deck. It seemed to work with 32 cards, as far as I could tell. I'm guessing it might not work with an ODD number of cards.

I'll do a few more experiments, and I'll report back...


The Scarne book says a 52-card deck is a must (it's emphasized by the first sentence in the solution), and I never thought to question him. But I have no reason to doubt you either, so now I have my own experiment to do.
RogerTheShrubber
View Profile
Veteran user
302 Posts

Profile of RogerTheShrubber
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2014, BarryFernelius wrote:


Actually, this trick doesn't require a 52 card deck. It seemed to work with 32 cards, as far as I could tell. I'm guessing it might not work with an ODD number of cards.

I'll do a few more experiments, and I'll report back...


Son of a (insert predictable choice of word which would probably be bleeped)...you were right. I just did it and it worked for 32 and for 36. It never for a moment occurred to me to question Scarne's assertion or even think about it. This is a valuable lesson. I appreciate it, thanks.

My apologies to the OP. Seems I was wrong as I could be about the trick needing 52.
BarryFernelius
View Profile
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2502 Posts

Profile of BarryFernelius
Just finished doing the math to understand what's happening with this trick. There are a few corner cases that need further work. I'll report back what I've found later.
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."

-Pop Haydn
HudsonView
View Profile
New user
98 Posts

Profile of HudsonView
No worries Roger, this has been an interesting discussion.
alicauchy
View Profile
Veteran user
Málaga, Spain
304 Posts

Profile of alicauchy
Concerning Scarne's mathematical trick, the important fact that the performer needs to take into account is that the two spectator's cards should not be swapped. This can happen when one of the spectators stops after dealing a lot of cards: in this case, the number of cards between both cards can be odd. Of course, this can be avoided be kindly inviting the spectators to speed up the process; concerning this point, working with a picket deck might be risky.

The trick seems to work as well with odd-numbered decks, simply interchanging the behavior of left and right packages.

An interesting case, not commented in the book, is the possibility that both spectators can choose the same card just by chance. Obviously, both (the same chosen) cards can be found in the same (left or right) package.
So much to do, so little time . . .
Kingman
View Profile
Loyal user
Willow Spring NC
283 Posts

Profile of Kingman
Well. if they notice or not, I would. I would feel very strange holding less than a full deck in my hands. I would not want to get used to practicing with any other amount. You would be uncomfortable if someone handed you a personal deck and asked you do something. For cards that get used for mutilation effects. I never get rid of cards. When a deck is too worn to use smoothly it goes into a pile I can use for a TnR or if I need duplicates. The symmetry of a deck of playing cards is too beautiful of a thing, mathmatically and design-wise. Who would want to mess with it now?
-*-The Card Magic of Kingman-*-

I took the Pledge
HudsonView
View Profile
New user
98 Posts

Profile of HudsonView
" Who would want to mess with it now"

ah...I don't know. Inventors? people who think out of the box. For exploration? To see where it would go? During Houdin's time, how many cards were normal?

I'm certainly not saying that I always use less than a 52 card deck. I never even implied that I did. But rigidity is the enemy of creativity. Nothing is set in stone. All assumptions should be questioned. That is the difference between an art form that is growing and one that is a museum piece.

Who knows what could be accomplished by focusing ones mind on a small deck. We have Tiny House Nation on TV after all. Everyone is downsizing it seems. Smile

Cups and balls has no problem downsizing to a chop cup. Who knows what miracles await those who expore the possiblities of a chop deck?

It seems to me that larger than a packet, smaller than a full deck opens up areas of exploration. Why limit oneself.
ZachDavenport
View Profile
Inner circle
Last time I posted I had one less than
1195 Posts

Profile of ZachDavenport
If you have a reason to do it then do it, but don't do it just to do it.
Reality is a real killjoy.
Invisticone
View Profile
Regular user
132 Posts

Profile of Invisticone
@Derwyddon

Unless people start picking the exact same card over and over again, just replacing that card from another deck will be a lot more practical.
HudsonView
View Profile
New user
98 Posts

Profile of HudsonView
Funny, I was just reading Hofzinser's Card Conjuring and the very first effects are done the a 32 card deck.
JBSmith1978
View Profile
Loyal user
NY
280 Posts

Profile of JBSmith1978
Maybe try using thinner cards instead of less cards. Or practice certain things with more than 52.
docguitarman
View Profile
Veteran user
Thousand Oaks, California
312 Posts

Profile of docguitarman
Quote:
On Sep 8, 2014, BarryFernelius wrote:
Here's a possible justification. If you could have plausible reason for using a French piquet pack, 32 cards would be normal and natural. (This pack of cards has the same suits and four of each of these cards: 7, 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K, A. (2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are not used.) The cards are also a bit narrower than the cards that you're accustomed to.

Perhaps you could tell a story about the Father of Modern Magic, the great Jean Eugene Robert-Houdin. You could say that you were going to re-create one of the famous experiments with cards that he performed in the parlors that were fashionable in the 19th century.

Nevermind. That would never play for a modern audience. Smile


Another deck is the traditional Russian decks that have 36 cards, 4 more than the piquet deck, as the Russian deck includes the 6's. Russian decks can be bought and maybe some patter about the Russian deck would work.
docguitarman
View Profile
Veteran user
Thousand Oaks, California
312 Posts

Profile of docguitarman
Since my post above I ran across the "Spanish Suite" deck. It consists of four suits (clubs, cups, coins and swords) and cards numbered 1-7 and 10-11-12 (court cards), for a total of 40 cards.

I just bought a pair from playing card decks dot com for the outlandish price of 4.99 !

The deck are sufficiently "odd" so they look mysterious to me at least. I just need to think up some patter to go with them.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
26759 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Is this about fewer = easier for you;
Or audiences caring about whether you're doing card tricks with a full deck?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Not working with a full deck. (5 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2018 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.17 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL