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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Christian Mentalist (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mr. F
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I know that this isn't going to be an easily answered topic, and I'm sure opinions will vary greatly. My relationship with Christ is of the utmost importance to me, and I never want to be a stumbling block to anyone. With that being said, one of my greatest earthly pleasures is mentalism. It absolutely fascinates me. I am also of the mindset that blatantly stating I am a fake is boring and without wonder. At the same time, I believe fake explanations of NLP, body language...are potentially just as damaging as other common claims. What are some thoughts from FCM members and other Christian performers on this matter? I never want someone to think I am claiming to be psychic. At the same time, I love the child-like wonder that the mystery can illicit in audience members. I am of the mindset that disclaimers are only needed when claims are made, and I also believe that people will believe what they already hold true. I say all this to say that I'm curious how others with similar faith and interest feel about this. Thanks.

Josh
Ed_Millis
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Mr. F
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Thanks.
Terry Holley
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This topic has been discussed many, many times. Type "Christian" and "mentalism" in the advanced search engine window and look for the various threads that might relate.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Danny Kazam
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I have had several opinions on this matter in the past. Although the Bible doesn't exactly state all of the things we should avoid, it does make very clear how we are to represent ourselves as Children of God. We are also told to be mindful of others, and not to do things that would cause a brother to stumble in their faith.

The decision is between you and God. Inevitably, God is the final Judge.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
OzJosh
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I'm questioning the same thing.
mentalism is a funny form of magic.

I think that making sure that everyone knows that it's not mind reading or future telling.
that it's illusions for entertainment.

than what strikes me is that this may have people fall into the trap of questioning Prophetic words past and future.

my gut feeling says that people who don't understand what is happening (and that's really the idea) have a high risk of double guessing the truth of Jesus.

it's one thing for us to know it's all quick questions and misdirection, but people don't understand it.

I just don't feel right venturing into that side of Magic knowing it has the high ability to make people stumble.
Magic is the ability to lie and people to love you for it and want you to lie to them again and again and again
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themagiciansapprentice
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I watched John Archer live last night in a Church of 200+.

COMEDY + MAGIC + MENTALISM = great family fun

Nothing dark, nor sinister. Just good clean fun. In the UK, about 1 in 4 Gospel Magicians use some mentalism routine within their stage/Church acts. Even if only a PREDICTION of a named card.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Ed_Millis
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Quote:
On Oct 29, 2014, OzJosh wrote:
I'm questioning the same thing.
mentalism is a funny form of magic.

I think that making sure that everyone knows that it's not mind reading or future telling.
that it's illusions for entertainment.

than what strikes me is that this may have people fall into the trap of questioning Prophetic words past and future.

my gut feeling says that people who don't understand what is happening (and that's really the idea) have a high risk of double guessing the truth of Jesus.

it's one thing for us to know it's all quick questions and misdirection, but people don't understand it.

I just don't feel right venturing into that side of Magic knowing it has the high ability to make people stumble.

Personally, I think the only time you risk this is when you present it in a risky manner. "Regular" magic, if presented correctly, is not understood. Even if they know "it's a card trick", to watch it happen in front of them or even in their hands and have no explanation is potential for making people wonder about you and "special abilities" and so forth.

Generally speaking, we are the ones who endow mentalism with the "dark side of the force" aura. And that usually means we are playing to our audience's superstitions, not their desire for entertainment.

Ed
OzJosh
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Very true.

I have just started looking into it, I'm unsure of how it's perceived but none the less I'm very impressed
Magic is the ability to lie and people to love you for it and want you to lie to them again and again and again
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jimagic
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I have answered this question satisfactorily in my own mind in 2 ways: 1) As a user of some "mentalism" routines in my act I inform the audience that I do not read minds: I IMPROVE THEM. I stole that line from someone whom I can't remember, but it sets the audience at ease and at the same time lets them know that my mentalism is fun and entertaining - not "dark magic". 2) For some of the other magical things I offer I let the audience know that my tricks are for entertainment purposes only, and they differ from the MIRACLES that our God an perform. It puts my whole act into context and I try to relate most of my effects to some Biblical principle.
J-L Sparrow
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In "The Good News!" forum there is a topic titled "I am a Christian mentalist in turmoil." Many interesting points were made.

You can find the thread here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=16

I weighed in with my own opinions in the 54th reply (dated March 11, 2013), but I think a lot of the viewpoints were good ones (not just mine). I suggest reading a few and see if any resonate with you.

God bless!
Steve_Mollett
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If you're unsure, don't do it.
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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MagicKingdom10
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Russo
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I've done a couple Mental effects in my gospel program but never with the claim that Im doing mentalism- I just mention that if I (?) could(?) read their mind - what do they THINK God can do -so be alert When and WHAT YOU THINK. Ralph
OzJosh
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2014, jimagic wrote:
I have answered this question satisfactorily in my own mind in 2 ways: 1) As a user of some "mentalism" routines in my act I inform the audience that I do not read minds: I IMPROVE THEM. I stole that line from someone whom I can't remember, but it sets the audience at ease and at the same time lets them know that my mentalism is fun and entertaining - not "dark magic". 2) For some of the other magical things I offer I let the audience know that my tricks are for entertainment purposes only, and they differ from the MIRACLES that our God an perform. It puts my whole act into context and I try to relate most of my effects to some Biblical principle.



I like this, it also helps expose the fakes as well.
I'm rather keen to look into it further.
Magic is the ability to lie and people to love you for it and want you to lie to them again and again and again
www.redtopbox.com.au
^^^^^ has some really cool things on it
The Urban Entity
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What we do here is theater. As a mentalist who is a Christian. I don't incorporate the gospel in my presentations. Its not my calling. I am your regular old apologist who spread the word the old fashioned way. That being said, mentalism is not sorcery as spoken in magic. If we look at what the bible says when it means "sorcery",the original writings use the word, "pharmakon" which is medicine or drugs. It was how the people of the old days use to get their gods to speak to the people. In short, they were high, lol. Sorry to be so blunt. That too was a pun. But seriously, I'm giving you the truth. The bible doesn't like is divination. Seeking mediums, psychics, zodiacs, Ouija boards, voodoo.

How does these separate from what we do? When a person seeks a medium or use a vessel or any form of oracle to seek about their actual life. (knowing the future, what can I expect from this new job, am I going to marry the person I'm supposed to be with, etc.), we sin against God. God is the source of all information. If we are seeking real information to learn INSIGHT about ourselves, or the future, or another person WITHOUT ASKING GOD, then we sin.

Mentalists in the traditional sense are not psychics or mediums. Sure, some people do that. But I'm quite sure you don't right? We are guessing thoughts. Not giving insight or proclaiming to know the future. A prediction effect is not doing so. Its merely revealing the answer moments before its revealed on stage.

However, some Q&A's can cross that line when they start claiming to know the future and giving people insights on details in their lives. That I would not do. But something as innocent as a personality reading shouldn't cross that line because you are in the purest essence, hypothesizing or guessing about the character of that person. You are not giving them information about the future or divining outcomes of their lives, and most importantly, you are not REPLACING GOD in the presentation.

Drugs, witchcraft, etc. that's the sorcery spoken of in the bible. I think the best policy we as Christians can tell people about us is that we are magicians. That word lets people know that we are honestly trying to trick you. that's our job to do in the purest essence, tricks.

Is it a lie? Yes and no. Yes, we use deception (a lie) but we are being honesty about what we are going to do. The thing is we are also mystery performers. We use sleight of hand to make it mysterious.

Its like CGI in a movie. We know human being can't fly. But because we know we are watching a "MOVIE" . The word, movie tells us that we know almost everything in it is staged. We don't 100% always know how they achieve the effects, but we know its via camera trick or cut scenes.

When we say magician, people know its a trick. They just don't know how its done.

Hope this helps.
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magic1977
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Brother... A disclaimer should be made at every performance that we do tricks... only God can do a miracle. I would never leave the church audience with the impression that I had any power of my own.
The Urban Entity
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I agree!
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mindtaker
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Be honest about your deception and everything will be fine.
Russo
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A lot of times I started my program with the Verse --2 Corinthians 4:1-2 - in my 'living Bible' translations the word TRICK - Fool You, plus other simular words is used. look it up- also when I mention -'if I can read your mind -THINK what our Heavenly Father is reading in YOUR mind." Ralph(russo)Rousseau
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