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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Knots and loops » » "Reason" for restoring Cut and Restored rope (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

MagiCol
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Once the rope has been cut in two what are some 'reasons' for doing that, tying the knot and restoriing the rope?
I think there must be a story that is better than my one of
"Because I'm a magician, once the rope is cut, I like to tie it together and fix it up'
One story I've heard is about the Royal Navy maximising rope waste by joining left-over rope to restore it for further use.


When I do the tying I do a bit
of faked elaboration, because those familiar with rope will figure out, I think, that the overhand knot wouldnt really
hold the rope together. In today's world many people of say, 30 year or younger, are not familiar with using rope, or tying knots.
But 'oldies' will know that an overhand knot will fall to bits when tension is put on the end of the rope.
I do the overhand knot and then fake an extra overhand knot as if tying a reef/square knot or Granny knot.

By the way, I've read that tying a knot in a rope reduces it's strength by about half? That doesn't matter for magic, but
if you were mountaineering it would be avoided if possible, I'm sure.
The presentation makes the magic.
silvercup
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Good question.
I perform it like Slydini where I'm attempting to remember how to do someone else's trick, fail, and have to start over.
Pop Haydn
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"Have you seen that old trick where the magician cuts the rope and puts it back together again? I'm going to do the same thing, but I'll show you how it is done..."
funsway
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In my "Necklacy" routine the rope starts in a loop with various objects hung on the rope like a giant necklace.

You have to cut the rope to get something off to perform with and have to tie it again to keep the other objects on.

Naturally, you could just untie the knot, which you do later, getting yourself confused. Many effects performed with the removed objects fitting that audience.

During the show the rope is cut and restored four times -- each differently -- ending with three ropes that happen to be the right length for PM.

In the end the rope with several knots is tied into a necklace. You pull off all of the knots buy one, leaving a single restored rope as in the beginning.

Great for an Assisted Living Center with a running gag that all the residents have to keep their personal belongs on a rope to keep from loosing them. One is an empty toilet paper role used in several effects.

Lots of fun. Some the C&R are performed with audience participation and five knots are tossed out during a show running from 30-60 minutes.

The cutting of the rope into PN lengths "on the fly" will floor any magicians in the audience because you have cut away 4-5 inches during previous moves or random length.

The point is that if you want a reason for the restoration you may have to look at the entire act.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Dick Oslund
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Colin!

A "simple" overhand knot's ONLY REAL USE is as an "end" knot which acts as a temporary whipping that prevents the rope from ravelling (i.e.; coming "unlaid). OR, as a "stopper" knot to keep the rope's end from passing through an opening, OR, as the "start" of REEF OR SQUARE knot. NOTE: If the overhand knot is tied with a pole or ring, etc. in the loop, it is converted automatically to a half hitch by tugging on the working end, so that the working end lies along side the standing part. An overhand knot will NOT serve as a BEND! (A bend is a knot used to JOIN THE ENDS OF TWO ROPES.

The SQUARE or REEF KNOT should NEVER BE USED AS A BEND. Many lives have been lost due to the instability of a square or reef knot. A SQUARE or REEF KNOT is a BINDING KNOT. It is used to join the ends of the SAME ROPE, when the rope ends have been passed AROUND "SOMETHING", such as a package, or in tying shoe laces. .

The COMMON knot used to join ropeS is the SHEET BEND or BECKET BEND. Tied properly, it will hold (not easily capsized) and is easy to untie.

End of "lesson" about the SQUARE OR REEF KNOT.

You are correct regarding knots weakening rope. (up to 50% of the ropes normal strength). --it depends on which knot is used, and how it is used.

I have written "Knot Knotes" for Scout leaders. I hope to have it in print before the end of 2015. (Knot Knotes does NOT "share" the Dr. Daley Knot!

I hope this discourse has been helpful!

"Knots to you!

Dick

P.S. PM, me, if you like. I have written up how to handle the "problem",and, I will fill you in. I have covered this in my upcoming book. If I print it here, it may encourage book sales (here comes the "but":) BUT, it would be very hard to explain without exposing it to non magicians who may be lurking.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Dick Oslund
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BTW>>> For about ten seasons, I used a variation of Ken Allen's "If You Like It" rope routine to open the high school program.

IT KILLED!

I used it in a an "explanation" of how our minds are fooled by our senses.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
harris
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I tell people

I am going to do a trick no one will be able to figure out.
I'm going to make one rope into 2 ropes....

cut rope

as you can see know one can figure that out...

look around room, sad face...

well I guess ....(and restore)
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
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music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
James_Kelsey
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In Mark Mason's routine the audience member cut's the rope when they "weren't supposed to," it's hilarious.
mtpascoe
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"I've been doing this trick for thirty years and no one has questioned why I take a rope..." take rope and pull up the middle, "...cut the rope..." Take scissors and cut rope. "... then restore it." Restore rope. "Last week, a millennial shouted out as he was texting, 'Why do you do that?' "

I was puzzled. "Doing what?"

Because millennials question everything, he continued, "...that trick does not make sense… why would you cut the rope just to restore it? If you take a rope. . ." Bring up the center of the rope. ". . . cut it. . ." Cut the rope. "…then it would stand to reason there should be only one way to make it one piece." Take the two ends of the rope and tie it together so there is a knot in the middle of it. "All the while, he never looked up from his iPad."

"I gave him a dirty look. I wanted to slap him real good. I explained to him that if you don't cut the rope, you have no trick. Which makes sense when you think about it. To fix your mess, you have to mess with the language a bit."

Take the rope and wrap it around your left hand. Then go to your pocket for the pixie dust. Sprinkle it over the ropes. "Take the 'k' from the knot and the knot..." Unravel the rope. "…is not…" Show rope is restored. "…there." Display rope to show it's whole again.


It's just a thought.
CJRichard
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The reasons for cutting and restoring rope including simply demonstrating that you can do something magical,"showing them how it's done," or illustrating a story about people who were divided somehow and came back together among others.

The effect has more reasons than many other tricks, for example, making a giant die fly from a box to your hat. . .
"You know some of you are laughin', but there's people here tryin' to learn. . ." -Pop Haydn

"I know of no other art that proclaims itself 'easy to do.'" -Master Payne

Ezekiel the Green
Inviso
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Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, mtpascoe wrote:
Take the rope and wrap it around your left hand. Then go to your pocket for the pixie dust. Sprinkle it over the ropes. "Take the 'k' from the knot and the knot..." Unravel the rope. "…is not…" Show rope is restored. "…there." Display rope to show it's whole again.

It's just a thought.


Maybe taking the 'K' from the not is actually pulling a letter 'K' from the hand with the rope around it. It could be fabric, sponge or those plastic magnetic letters children use. Whatever works best for your needs.

Just another thought.

Randy
Dick Oslund
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TO MAGICOL (The OP)

I don't think that you are too seriously interested in learning what you asked about in your OP! I told you the basics of working with rope, and you didn't even bother to reply. There is a specific "answer" to your overhand knot problem. I wrote it up in the book. I'm not going to print it here. It was "invented" by a well known doctor/magician.

I invited you to PM me, which I don't do for everyone. That was in mid January of 2015. I've heard NOTHING from you.

Incidentally, I really don't think that the Royal Navy is interested in "MAXimizing rope waste"!

Both Funsway, and Pop Haydn gave you several ideas. You didn't respond to them, either.

Your "signature" states: "The presentation makes the magic". You don't seem to be interested in learning anything about the problem in your OP.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Pop Haydn
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TheMightyRicardo
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Thanks Pop, both for the entertainment and the rational and flowing presentation.
Tukaram
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Thanks for the video Sir Haydn. I just bought the pdf of this on your site 2 weeks ago and had not thought to look for a video yet Smile
Pop Haydn
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There is a downloadable video available here:

https://www.popsmagic.com/store/p33/Pop_......DEO.html
Dick Oslund
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In my book I spent pages explaining how the now,"standard" Edward Victor method for "c & r ing" a rope, although much used, is far from the best method as it's normally performed. To do the Victor method, as it's explained, one needs to do the move at the worst possible moment. I really believe that far too many performers, are actually "fooling themselves"! (They THINK that they are fooling people!

Max Malini was a consummate magician. In those days, the pass was the "standard" method of controlling a selected card. It was a difficult, virtually impossible sleight to do, when people were watching. Wise magicians realized that misdirection at the "critical" moment was needed.

The late, and great, magician, Jack Chanin, and I, spent several hours (63 years ago) in a session on "c & r ing" rope. I consider that time with Jack, the most worthwhile time that I ever spent, discussing techniques, and, I've spent a "few" hours with some very talented magicians.

Jack tipped to me, what I considered "priceless information", which I have used ever since. I've never seen what Jack Chanin told me, in print.

I passed it along in my book, along with "Dr. Daley's knot", and, a "soft suckering" routine to make it more fun. (That routine is almost automatically re set.)


The OP, tossed out a "question" and, disappeared. I hope this last bit of information is useful.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Rook
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I went to the Magic Cafe and all I got were these lousy
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I talk about relationships and how with enough work and even a bit of magic, we can heal old wounds.
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.

-Roald Dahl
MickNZ
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2017, Dick Oslund wrote:
The OP, tossed out a "question" and, disappeared. I hope this last bit of information is useful.


The original poster, Colin Schwamm, died several years ago. He was a street performer in New Zealand.

I will apologise on his behalf for not getting back to you sooner Dick, I imagine he’s got other things on his mind at this point.
Dick Oslund
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Hello MickNZ! I've been "surfing the web, this evening, and happened to land here.

I'm sorry, but, I hadn't heard of Mr. Schwamm's passing away. Thank you for passing along the information. The thought that he had died, had never occurred to me.

I have had it happen that someone posts a question, and I invest an hour or so, writing up some information ("magicians helping magicians") and the OP doesn't respond. Then some time later, the same person repeats his question, and, never responds to any of the the others, either.

I hope that you can realize my frustration.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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