Euan; I think you must be leaving SOMETHING out. First thought that comes to mind is a switch of half decks. Because - there was something like that around many years ago. I may have had something to do with it myself. Some things do start to "leave me" if I don't think they're really practical. HARRY.

Seems the site has had a whole change lately. The trick is not on it anymore. It does still contain lot of moves etc. explained though. It's something with http://www.e-magictrick.com I think.

Harry,

Thanks for replying. It is so interesting to hear your views and anecdotes.

I have not seen Derren Brown's effect performed, but I can see a method for the effect as Euan describes it: it would involve the "mother of all gaffed decks"! It would not be an examinable deck, but my idea for the gaffed deck WOULD work (Harry - I know you don't go for gaffed decks, but shall I send you my idea in a private message?!). Anyway, I guess I'll have to buy Derren's videotape and compare methods!

Harry - Derren Brown is a UK-based magician who performs alternative mentalism, or "psychological illusions". He is well known here, having done several TV programmes. You can see his web site at www.derrenbrown.co.uk

Best,

Steve

Derren's method involves no gimmicks (you can actually use a borrowed deck), and the spectator really can give the deck a genuine shuffle. The method is very different from Out of this Universe (which in my opinion is also a fine effect).

Euan's description is exactly that from the spec's point of view. There is one small move involved, but due to the well thought out presentation, it's done on an off-beat.

Yep - as I expected. Brown is quite an amazing thinker. I will have to get his tape.

Steve

No, that's exactly how it goes, no switches as I said.

Euan

Mr Lorayne wrote:
"Good to hear from you, Darwin. HARRY.
(PS: Shall we talk about all those years ago - at the Roosevelt Hotel?!)"


Please do not tease us like this!!!

We all want to hear it now!!!

Always ready to hear (read) some good stories...

Ronnie Lemieux
Montreal
Canada

Ho ho.... this is becoming a hot topic!

Almost as hot as the one titled "Invisible deck?"

Steve

I think that a lot of magicians don't like to do tricks where they don't get to "show off" their knucklebusting sleights. But we have to remember that it is what the spectator thinks that that REALLY counts. No audience=no performance. I am an amateur, relatively new. "Out of
universe" plays very well, is well within the reach of my ability, and always floors people. I think that part of the fun for the spectator is that THEY get a hand in this trick, THEY get to handle the cards for the most part, if you let them riffle shuffle, and then deal at the end. Sure there's no super-intense sleights, but you don't need that stuff in every trick to entertain. Do this trick and present it well and you will look like a class A magician.

I have found many great tricks from Mr Lorayne's books (so far I only own 3 but that will change!). Tricks like "Revolving Aces" or "Lazy Man's Card Trick" are written clearly and entertain people well because their plots are direct and allow for entertainment extraordinaire!

Thank you Mr Lorayne, Canada loves ya!

...ahem... as to my previous post, I should add that it's

"out of THIS universe".

Sorry about the glitch.

Euan,

In your description of Derren's effect, it is unclear who deals the cards into two piles after they have been shuffled. Is it the spectator or the performer?

Steve

Scafidi7,

There is a version of the effect called "Out of THAT Universe".

The spectator shuffles the cards and deals them into two piles. When the two piles are spread out, it is found that each of them contains a mixture of red and black cards. The effect is credited to Wally Vindaloo. I saw him FRACTURE a room full of magicians with it. Unfortunately, as he left the stage, he tripped on the stairs and FRACTURED his leg. He never performed again.

Steve

Scafidi7: Thanks for your input. And, of course, you're absolutely right. I stress this at all my lectures - "Laymen are not fooled by what they see, they are fooled by what they THINK they see." if you want to you can do OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE, and make it APPEAR as if you're doing some really complicated sleight of hand. But, why bother, they'll either think that anyway - how else could you possibly accomplish that? Or, for the believers - they'll think you really can control them and/or the cards with your mind. Either way is okay, isn't it?
And, my friend, I love Canada! Best - HARRY.

Steve, I suggest you get derren's tape to see his method. it really is direct and you wont be disappointed. either the spec or the performer can deal the piles. enough information for you...go buy the tape. as for your comments on the original out of this world...i am a firm believer that it is one of the greatest card tricks ever created. maybe when you were ten years old the performer did not present it properly. in any case, I love out of this universe. sometimes I present it as a "im a great shuffler" situation, other times I prsent it as a mental card effect. thank you Harry for this effect and for Close Up Card Magic. Incidentally, Apocalypse was my first magic purchase. Thanks Harry.

David Whitehead: My pleasure, David. Thanks for your kind words re: my OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE. You can do me a favor, if you would. I haven't the time to check out Derren's version of what we're talking about. Can you tell me - is it a derivative of my original OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE? Is it done with a borrowed deck? Is a switch involved? If you don't want to answer these things publicly, please "Private Message" me. Or - go into my website - harrylorayne.com. From there you can email me directly, and no one else will see it. I'd appreciate it. Need to assuage my curiosity. Thanks. HARRY L.


Posted: Feb 6, 2004 6:43pm
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I just came back to this post. I'd like to give a general answer to all the bul.. - talk - re: Derren Brown's effect. Someone was kind enough to send me the effect, or explain it to me. Sorry guys, to me it's a bloody mess. There's no way it can compare to my OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE or to the original OUT OF THIS WORLD. It is sometimes so good to just leave well enough alone!
And, of course, the original statement was really not true. When you say the spectator shuffles the deck, please explaing that he or she is told to do only ONE OVERHAND SHUFFLE. Tell that to the kind of people I work for and they'll do four riffle shuffles!
And, there IS a switch involved, even though one of the posts definitely states that there isn't. What the h--- do you call a Biddle switch?! And, there are crimps involved. Please. To me, INMHO, this is a joke. Sorry. HARRY LORAYNE.

As the topic is "Out of This Universe"-- the punchline of Know it? HE WROTE IT! applies. You can rest easy knowing that Mr. Lorayne knows how his routines are meant to be presented!

If someone really wants to gain something of value from a trademark, pet effect from our Guest of Honor-- there are 50+ years of performing OOTU to draw from. Anyone who has seen Harry perform this live (I have) knows how strong it is in his hands. It just didn't become one of Harry's pet effects by accident-- It is hardly the "only" effect at H.L.'s disposal from which to choose.

Sometimes, if you really want miracles-- it takes a little more effort and attention to venue. For those who are willing, "Out of This Galaxy" (TREND-SETTERS) offers that.

As to the effect of "Out of This Galaxy": With a deck already in use, spectator shuffles deck as thoroughly as they desire, until satisfied or exhausted. Spectator deals the deck into two piles. Spectator turns over both piles-- all red cards in one, all black in the other. No crimps, dimps, or blimps. No gaffs.

This handling I have used quite a bit, standup, with one modification.

Randy,

I agree in so much as it seems odd to bring about comparisons of Out of this Universe to an effect that is very different both in method and presentation.

As for me personally, I have performed, but no longer perform Out of this Universe. The reason is it doesn't seem to suit my style. Perhaps my style will change or I will find an appropriate presentation that will suit me.


However, I would like to thank Harry for publishing this wonderful effect just the same. Close-up Card Magic was one of my first serious books in card magic, and I delved into it with full fury. On top of the clever ideas used in the method, Out of this Universe showed me that OOTW or any other trick is what you make of it.

Once again, thank you Harry Lorayne.

Cheers,
Derrick

Derrick: My pleasure! Hary L.

Hi Harry,
What's a couple of decades amongst friends?
I was your illustrator for the Apocalypse from Jan-June of '79. Getting warm?
Just kidding, I am Bill Steinacker and just wanted to say I enjoyed the experience of working with you. I particularly enjoyed drawing the comic covers.
You were a gracious and inspiring man to know. I hope you and your family are well.
If you get the chance check out my website at: kiddiekazam.com
Thanks again Harry (wish we would have had computers and the internet back then!

An effect (Derren Brown's version of OOTW) really shouldn't be knocked after only reading a description of it from the Internet, and without having ever seen it performed. Many subtleties have (obviously) been left out in the description you received. The shuffle "problem" is covered on the tape, and the switch becomes redundant due to the presentation. As I said, it's on an off-beat and couldn't be easier.

By the way, I THINK when Euan said there was no switch, he meant there is no switch during the mid-point of the spectators separation of the reds and blacks.

Regards

That introduces a new concept into Magic-- if a switch is truly redundant, there could be no reason for it to exist. Let's all get more redundant moves into our routines, a technique that seems little explored. It all should balance out well, something like a pig on a snow shovel.

If this thread ever was about Harry Lorayne's trademark routine "Out of This Universe"-- use of this routine by Darwin Ortiz, Juan Tarmariz, etc., along with previously documented testimonials from hundreds of magicians around the world (including Paul Curry) should be more than sufficient to show it is an exceptional one in the right hands.

If the thread really isn't about H.L. or his routine, then the question arises as to exactly what redeeming value it could possibly have-- and why it is has been foisted into Harry's Guest of Honor appearance here. There may well be a good place for it, I can think of one, but this just isn't it.

For anyone with a sincere interest in H.L's routine, the proper "sell" or fine points-- there is hardly anyone more qualified to address that than H.L. Some fifty years of living with a pet routine speaks to that, loud and clear. And someone who does not even perform Harry's routine somehow "knows better"?

That is very impressive.

Bill (Zorak): Hi, Bill, you sure are a voice out of the past. It's a pleasure to hear from you. I particularly remember the evening you came to do some pictures for APOCALYPSE in a heavy snowstorm. I was sure you wouldn't make it tha night, but you walked from Penn Station (no taxis available), rang my bell, and I saw a "snowman" outside my door! It was good to work with you, too, Bill. Stay well. HARRY.


Posted: Feb 7, 2004 11:37am
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Mike: I'm sure Derren Brown presents and does his effect marvelously. That's not the point. You know, I'm not about to build up my own stuff, particularly OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE. Randy just did a better job at it than I could. (See his post right after yours.) Do you want to know the truth? And I don't mean this to be a "wiseguy" remark, but - I really couldn't care less. You're trying to tell me about someone's takeoff on a takeoff I did fifty years ago. Why in the world would I care about that now? If you prefer to do Derren's version of OUT OF THIS WORLD rather than my OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE. Well, of course. Incidentally, have you ever seen OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE performed? Properly?
But, I've spent a week here answering people who've asked questions about my preferences, my choices, and so forth. There's simply no way I would do a routine - not for the people I for whom I perform - that necessitates my opting for only one overhand shuffle, a Biddle Switch (something I've never used; handling cards that way would look unnatural to my viewers), half deck crimp, et al.
That would go against everything I planned originally for OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE. And I planned it for ME. That's important for you to understand. the fact that magicians all over the world go along with my kind of planning is gratifying; I'm pleased. But, obviously, if someone thinks something is "better," why that's great, too.
And I gotta' tell you something, Mike. First of all I didn't "knock" anything. That's your interpretation. But, I don't know how long you've been into magic. I do know how long I've been into it. And, yes, I can tell if an effect, idea, routine, is something I'd like, meaning want to perform it (or include it in APOCALYPSE when I was publishing it, or in a book) WITHOUT seeing it performed. Many, many, times anxious contributors to APOCALYPSE would call, describe a routine to me, and I'd have to say, "No, don't bother sending it to me, it's just not for my readers/subscribers." Yes, my call, my choice. And, considering the success of APOCALYPSE, I must have been doing SOMETHING right. One of them being making choices WITHOUT necessarily seeing something performed.
Don't mean to be repetitive, but the things I personally didn't, don't, like or prefer, are probably exquisite in the creator's hands. HARRY.