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CarlMcCoy Elite user 465 Posts 
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Oh, but I've just noticed RNK, that rooti4 ended his post with the same point as my original post: wait for reviews.
Can be applied to literally every product sold. |
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RNK Inner circle 7528 Posts
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No one said EVERY PRODUCT, you stated that. Here is your quote:
"Sorry, no I'm not. Unless it can be proved otherwise, and everyhting on their site is misleading or falsely advertised, then what I posted is entirely accurate. Not trying to start an argument, but the OP was a bold statement...surely it should be based in fact, not personal opinion?" It's a simple fact that SOME of their products have had misleading ads. This is what was stated- NOT every product as you stated.
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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CarlMcCoy Elite user 465 Posts
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Jeez RNK...really? If you're gonna pick things apart to make your point...then whatever. But at least quote the right posts. The post above that one was pretty clear "Unless everything they've ever put out is a lie / fake / misleading, then it's not a statement that can be made so easily."
That's what I said in response to the original post. Simple sentence, clarifying my original point. A point that was only my opinion obviously. I just think that blanket statements like the original have no place unless there can be no other outcome. And since no one has reviewed the stupid thing yet... The beer's going down well but I wish I wasn't stuck in front of this sodding computer. Back to work...have a good night whevever you are fella. |
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ReviewerMaster Veteran user 307 Posts
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I have no dog in the race here. But having read through the reviews posted above, which I found is pretty inaccurate for the two items I own. I had no problem with the ad copies as most ad copies are written in spectator's perspective. It's pretty obvious to magicians what the ad copy really means. It's like you would never see 'spectator think of a forced card...' It's likely to be described as 'a thought of card.' Same goes to mentalism, it won't be 'reading the info on a bill@t', it's likely to be 'reading spectator's mind..'
Just my two cents.. |
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Slackerking Special user 613 Posts
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I've bought a number of Sansmind products and been very happy with them, which is more than can be said for some other developers I've purchased from. Nicholas Lawrence in particular has done some great stuff. If you don't like them, don't buy their product. And btw, your proof aren't facts, they're opinions. Not the same thing.
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barts185 Inner circle Can you believe I've been wrong on 1355 Posts
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To clarify some things, since it seems like it was my post that set this off:
1) As with every post I read on here, I presumed that "in my opinion" was implied since I don't ever presume that I speak for anyone, much less everyone. I guess I need to say, in my opinion, as with every post I read on here, I presumed that "in my opinion" was implied since I don't ever presume that I speak for anyone, much less everyone. 2) IN MY OPINION, Sans Minds has ZERO credibility does not mean that they have NEVER put out a product with a misleading trailer and/or false ad copy. It means that, IN MY OPINION, they have put out misleading trailers and/or false ad copy often enough that I don't trust the trailer or ad copy to accurately show what I will get should I order something from them. 3) Just because, IN MY OPINION, there is misleading ad copy and/or misleading trailers doesn't mean that the actual item will suck. It just means that, IN MY OPINION, I can't trust that what I see in the trailer and ad copy will actually be what I would get should I order the item. It could be that the item is still great. It could be that the item sucks. It doesn't matter (IN MY OPINION). IN MY OPINION, false ad copy and misleading trailers should be discouraged. As I said in the post, IN MY OPINION, it won't matter since people will continue to purchase their products, and their (IN MY OPINION) bad conduct will continue to be rewarded. IN MY OPINION, everyone has made much more of a deal out of what I said than they have made over Sans Minds lying to us. Which, IN MY OPINION, is pretty sad. Have a nice day. |
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barts185 Inner circle Can you believe I've been wrong on 1355 Posts
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Also, as a small follow-up, and this is a generic comment not directed at any company in particular,
I'm REALLY tired of "that's what the spectator will remember" being an excuse for misleading trailers and false ad copy. If it's NOT a free choice, don't say it's a free choice. Is that SO hard? If the ad copy says NO FORCE, and there is a FORCE, apparently that's OKAY because the spectator won't know that there was a force, RIGHT? If the ad copy says that no duplicate card is involved, but there is a duplicate card involved, that's okay - because the spectator won't know that there's a duplicate card involved, RIGHT? In my opinion, THAT'S RIDICULOUS!!! |
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CarlMcCoy Elite user 465 Posts
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Hi barts..in that instance I'd agree with you: If an advert said NO DUPLICATE, but that was the actual method, then that would be a complete lie / wrong / misleading etc.
The force thing though...I'm on the fence with it to be honest. I think that any moderate amount of time playing with magic and certain things become obvious and common place. Example: KNowing someone's thought of card. There are only so many ways one can 'know' someone elses though of card, be it peek or force...therefore I honestly don't see the problem. Howevwer I am with you on blatant lies; No duplicate, no seashell etc. Ad Copy: "Nothing beats magic with an organic tone. A soda can is one of the most commonly seen objects around the world. Imagine grabbing any unprepared soda can off any one and then ripping the tab off. You place the tab on your spectator’s open palm, take the can, and tap it to the sitting tab in your spectator’s hand. The tab instantly seals back on the can. Canic is a piece of situational miracle. Whether you want to leave a long lasting impression for your clients, impress the press at a press conference, or simply perform it to make a few friends, you have to try Canic to know how powerful it is." But once again, as far as ad copy goes, I see nothing in the following that could be considered false apart from "and then ripping the tab off". Let's face it, we all know that one doesn't 'actually' rip the tab off, becuase to put it back on in an examinable leave-behind state would be magic. But I don't consider that to be misleading...unless people think it would be better for the ad to state: "Imagine grabbing any unprepared soda can off any one and then pretending to rip the tab off". Like I said, and so did you, reviews will tell all. With regard to someone elses post about the noise made when the tab is ripped off, I'd imagine that is correct and not added on in post to help sell the product (my opinon) as even a few seconds with a can and it is pretty opbvious how that is accomplished. Which isn't to take away from how clever it is, if they are indeed doing what I am right now with the can on my desk. It would seem that the real meat of this is hte vanish of the tab. I'm hopeful that reviews will be positive as it does look very nice indeed. |
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barts185 Inner circle Can you believe I've been wrong on 1355 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 25, 2015, CarlMcCoy wrote: Whether obvious or not, I don't understand why lying about one thing is okay, but lying about another thing is not. What is obvious to you might not be obvious to me. What is obvious to both of us might not be obvious to someone else. WHY CAN'T THEY JUST TELL US THE TRUTH? Why do we have to guess when they are lying and when they are telling the truth? I would much prefer it if everyone just told the truth and we could make informed decisions. Failing that, I would like to punish companies that are habitual offenders. Again, I don't expect that to happen, just think it would be nice if we could actually start relying on truthful trailers and ad copy. And, in case I need to say this, I'm not suggesting that anything in the trailer is lying or in the ad copy is false for this specific product. I don't know since I don't have the item. What I do know is that Sans Minds has both lied and produced misleading trailers often enough that I won't buy anything from them. If everyone did that, maybe we (the magic community as a whole) would be better off. |
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ReviewerMaster Veteran user 307 Posts
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I for one holds a different opinion. I own a couple items from them and despite the fact that I did not like one of the item due to personal preference, I enjoyed the quality of their production and found the ad copy to be accurate in them.
Generally speaking, an ad copy would only make sense if it’s described from a lay audience perspective. That’s the Effect they are selling. I do fully agree that if a magician term is used to describe a Method, such as if they tell you it uses NO FORCE and the method involves a FORCE, it’s lying and false advertisement. But if they are describing an EFFECT, no method should be brought in view. An experienced magician is expected to read between the lines with some common magical knowledge. After all, what’s being described is the effect, not the method. You’d never see ‘spectator picks a forced card…’ in any ad. Nor ‘as the imvi@ible t@re@d pulls up the spinning ring, creating the illusion of levitation in spectator’s eyes…’ It doesn’t make sense. I do like the fact they exposed (if the term is used correctly here) the smoke device to keep people informed on what they are getting into. It’s expensive and it doesn’t mean much to describe just the effect. I was very happy with the smoke device purchase. Just my two cents on what I think defines an effect description (ad copy) and method (instruction). |
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Slackerking Special user 613 Posts
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Do people actually buy products from advertising? I don't buy a car because I like the way it looks in an tv spot, or go to a movie because it has a great trailer, or buy a computer because it has a fancy print ad. Advertising grabs my interest, then I go research the product and make an informed decision whether to buy or not. Works like a charm, rarely get burned. All advertising oversells. It's kind of the whole point of advertising.
I'd be much more likely to boycott them for their annoying frontman (thank god he's toned it down), than their advertising or products. |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts
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MR Effecto Inner circle 2835 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 25, 2015, Slackerking wrote: This gets two
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Alex DLF Inner circle 1997 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 25, 2015, Slackerking wrote: I agree but overselling does not mean lying to customers I thinK. SM has some good effects but they just can't stop lying which doesn't make me want to invest into their business compared to another company, a more honest one.
Get yourself Stamper and MONU, the perfect walkaround packet tricks: https://youtu.be/rwtfeKFeLms & https://youtu.be/yz5yKlI-4w8
Make sure to check my English review Channel! http://www.youtube.com/c/alexisreviews |
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ReviewerMaster Veteran user 307 Posts
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I am very curious as to what SM lied about. From the couple items I have, the descriptions are pretty accurate.
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Zuke Veteran user 353 Posts
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Man 1: I'm not going to walk through that mine field, the last 6 guys got blown up.
Carl: That's a pretty bold statement. You are assuming that every piece of that field has a mine under it. I think we should wait for some more people to walk through it before we comment. ............................. Girl 1: I don't want to date that guy because he always cheats on his girlfriends. Carl: That's a pretty bold statement. You are assuming he has cheated on every single girl he has ever been out with. I believe there was a girl in high school that he didn't cheat on...and I heard there was another one in 2009. So your comment is not valid. All characters appearing in the above dramas are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. 
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CarlMcCoy Elite user 465 Posts
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That was a complete waste of your time to type...I'd point out the obvious reasons why... but that would be a complete waste of mine.
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takeachance Inner circle 3777 Posts
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Are the tabs coloured or plain aluminium tone as normal can tabs are? Anyone bit the bullet yet on this yet?
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barts185 Inner circle Can you believe I've been wrong on 1355 Posts
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If a review I've seen is correct, they've outdone themselves in the lying department this time.
I do not own this, but have no reason to doubt the review I saw in a private group. The ad copy: "Nothing beats magic with an organic tone. A soda can is one of the most commonly seen objects around the world. Imagine grabbing any unprepared soda can off any one and then ripping the tab off. You place the tab on your spectator’s open palm, take the can, and tap it to the sitting tab in your spectator’s hand. The tab instantly seals back on the can. Canic is a piece of situational miracle. Whether you want to leave a long lasting impression for your clients, impress the press at a press conference, or simply perform it to make a few friends, you have to try Canic to know how powerful it is." The reality according to the review: The can is NOT unprepared. The can can NOT be borrowed as the preparation of the can is not short. |
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The Greek Loyal user 300 Posts
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Canic by Nicholas Lawrence and Sansminds (7 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Mar 24, 2015 08:07 pm 
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