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Engine Regular user 123 Posts |
Hey all,
I've done some looking on the Café and haven't found the answer I'm looking for so allow me to post two questions afresh; 1. I'm looking for a great finish for the Silk fountain- right now I'm using a fountain of 23 18" silks with a 54" US Flag final load (which is detachable ala' Laflin's advice from his silk fountain DVD.) I'd love something elegant for formal evening shows - every "Goodnight" or "The End" silk and even most of the blendos are a bit cartoonish or over the top. I've also tried a line of silks but it didn't really flow. Any ideas? (I'd prefer to stay any from any livestock.) 2. Currently I'm doing a steal from a tissue box (a bit like the steal in the Enc. of Dove magic!) The load is nearly the size of a softball. I've seen a flatter version but it opens fairly slowly because of the 'loose' folds, mine's tight so that it will open at a bit faster pace. As a note, I usually am dressed in a standard suit and tie (no tails, no cummerbund...) I've thought about table loads but haven't really had a lot of experience. Suggestions? Every time I've performed it someone gasps...literally every time - literally gasps... I'd just like to keep developing it. Your thoughts are appreciated! |
ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
I would like to finish with a large silk that either complements, or is completely unlike, anything else in the fountain. For example, finish with a large, multicolor, tie-dyed silk or something like a black silk with a design or sparkly highlights. In addition to that, consider thin silver streamers and silver Flutter Fetti, or another confetti that stays airborne for a long time to give the closing some "pop"..
If you want to keep the effect going, you could do a table steal and a multicolor umbrella production.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
You can finish with a 36" target silk, folded the same as the others. This large silk opens and covers the rest, see Silk King Studios for the finale silk.
There are or were versions that produced a huge burning candle by James Rainho. This is not a steal but built into the fountain. With that same idea, I don't see why you could not have an appearing cane fly up out of the fountain. Other standard versions produced a bundle of paper spring flowers, see Abbott's Magic. Don't under estimate the power of surprise and color the spring flowers bring. I have a trick with spring flowers and always gets audible responses from the audiences. Look at the production items available on the market. Now I have never tried it, but maybe even a Nielsen Bottle production would work if it opened quickly enough. Steals are hard to execute without strong and proper misdirection and movement on the performer's part. Throwing out ideas is a waste of my time and yours. You are the only one that knows what you will like and if it is your idea, you will like it even better. You may have the solution already if you are getting great reactions from your audiences. Sometimes improving is not the answer, but to work on your presentation and strengthen that with proper movement and display. So, don't be surprised if by adding something kills the responses you were getting. |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
AL BAKER said it well: "Many a trick has died of 'improvements'!"
I can't remember who said "it" but,he was well qualified to say "it">>> "An artist, painting a picture, should have an assistant standing by, holding a club. The assistant's function is to hit the artist over the head, and say, 'stop', when the picture is finished." BTW>>> Somehow, I can't picture a performer dressed in a business suit, presenting the "blooming cabbage" (silk fountain, to some of you). Note: I am well aware that the "tails" worn by Robert HOUDIN, were the "business suit" of his day. The "Blooming Cabbage" is a lovely bit of eye candy. It just seems to me that this lovely bit of visual magic "needs" a performer dressed in something other than "work clothes"! In my school show, it was necessary to work in practical wardrobe. --But, I didn't present "pretty eye candy" tricks. They were visually pleasing, but,not tricks like the Silk Fountain. (also,tricks like the "cabbage" required too much "load time"!) The guys who tried to work in "tie and tails", didn't last long. I vividly recall being "brought in" to take over the tour, for a talented performer, who couldn't understand what the assembly field required.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote: I agree totally with the above comments. That was my final point I was trying to make with the Original Poster. BTW>>> Somehow, I can't picture a performer dressed in a business suit, presenting the "blooming cabbage" (silk fountain, to some of you). Quote:
Note: I am well aware that the "tails" worn by Robert HOUDIN, were the "business suit" of his day. Don't know what made you post this last part of your posts, but I must disagree with this insightful knowledgeable comment. I am sure you are speaking from your experience on the road doing School Shows. But not everyone does just School Shows. I don't know what the original Poster was speaking about when he mentioned is shows, so I have not advice on that subject. Since you brought up the tails and suit clothing for magician. I must say, I have always worn a suit for my shows. I believe in being well dressed when in public and especially when doing shows. I am just more comfortable in a tux, or suit and tie the cotton and shirt type of casual dress. It is a choice I was brought up with and like it. There are all kinds of suits and I find the French cut suits take away from the 'business' look and do add class and look of style, not found in the traditional pin strip look, they call the business suit. That is why I called my act, "Magic in the Modern Manner", meaning that it was a more modern look then the old traditional formal tails look of years gone by. That look did last several decades, as a standard for being a magician. As I have said in other topics, I see no reason, why putting in a little more effort then the other guys, to give an audience the experience of visual, colorful, magic is a bad thing to offer. Just as you have designed different routines for your school show, many time you have mentioned for the same tricks you are already using, so do I design tricks and material for different type of audiences. Usually with different tricks not very often seen by audiences, just because of the set-up factor and/or lazy magicians. You of course had he disadvantage of not booking your shows with the proper amount of time necessary for pre-preparation, but when I book 3 or 4 shows in a day, I do allow for set-up time. In many cases the client is willing to adjust their times to my schedule. As a school show performer, you did not have that advantage, and with driving, traffic and the unforeseen event, it was a challenge at times I am sure. Clothing is one of the more difficult and challenging categories for a man, no less a magician. What would a magician look like in the 21st Century. Finally, I personally feel like I am in some way cheating the client if they are paying me handsomely for me to perform a show, and I walk-in wearing a Khaki pants and a plaid shirt, and then only using some silks, rope, egg bag, and paper. Just not something I believe in. It is hard to know how a client visualizes what a magician is. On person once asked me, why aren't you wearing a set of tails and top hat. Another ask me, why don't I do cigarette tricks. |
Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
1) I made and use a very large silk fountain that begins with 18" silks, increases to 24", begins the finish with a 36" and concludes with a six footer. All of them are sewn together as if they were all the same... no secret pockets, holders, etc., and the last one is not opened as to display a picture. They fact that all "bloom" upward, as each new color develops, the last two really begin to create a waterfall effect as they cascade downward purely by their size. I usually finish with a large load stolen at this time and then producing it from the folds (in the past I have used a duck, a large flower bush, and currently a giant pocket watch), but I think the spectacle of the colors and obvious final cascade would be enough in a show.
2) I do not really worry about "stealing" the load in the usual "secret" sense of the term. I have it in a top hat sitting on a table. During the course of the act, a few silks are produced (in my case they are all black or white), and they are tossed in/on the hat. When I go to the hat with the last of those, I simply pick up the entire wad, cabbage included. The first silks of the bunch are black, so when the colors pop, it comes as a surprise. Where they came from is irrelevant at that point. There is too much to watch at the moment. But, to devise a more secretive steal, here is what I might do (one idea). Make a table with a well just deep enough to hold the cabbage. Have a short drape secured to the table, also with a hole, so it does not interfere with the well in the table. Put your cabbage inside with the "handle" up. Cover the entire table with another drape that matches the one secured to the table. Toss your silks on the table during the act, then when you retrieve them, grab the cabbage through the wad of silk. It, and the loose drape comes away with the wad of silks (matching colors will camouflage this). The remaining drape looks the same (except for the hole). If you time this to set something on the table just as you pick up the bundle, it can conceal the hole. Just brainstorming... there are many ways to do this, I think.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Hi Bill!
Spoken (or printed) words are easily confused! I remember a college professor, who was starting a lecture/demonstration about COMMUNICATION. He began with, "Words can be confusing." He extended his hand, holding a stick of chalk to a guy in the front row. He said, "Here, sir, please break the end off this stick of chalk." The young man, pleased to be involved, broke off the end of the chalk. The prof. smiled, and said, "Aha! you meant well, but you didn't do it! See! My chalk still has two ends!" Of course, the students laughed, and the prof. had our attention! He proceeded to explain how spoken, or printed, words, without a demonstration, or illustration, can be easily misconstrued. So, I should have been a bit more explicit regarding "business suit"! I was writing in hurry. (That's my only "excuse"!) At my age, I tend to think of "business suit" as a gray or dark blue, "pin stripe" extremely conservative garment, probably with a vest, white shirt, conservative tie, etc. Naturally, and, normally, I wouldn't work in a pair of khaki pants, and a flannel shirt. In the school show, I usually wore black dress pants, a black "dress" shirt, and a colorful blazer. (sometimes in winter in North Dakota, a black turtle neck) with a colorful blazer, usually red, and black pants In the '70s, when they were in style, I wore a plaid jacket. (Jay Marshall saw my first plaid jacket,and liked it so much, he went out and bought one, also. --We referred to them as our Egg Bag Coats!) Working in Mississippi,Louisiana, Alabama in late spring or early autumn, I several times wore Bermuds Walking Shorts, a short sleeved polo shirt and sandals! Once, I wore a "jump suit"! Those schools were not air conditioned! I tell a few stories of those situations in my book! (In one country school auditorium, with seats for 400, "they" brought in 800 primary moppets--two to a seat! In the "fancy" card shuffle routine,when I spread the cards on my arm, with shirt sleeves rolled up, the cards were "glued" to my arm! I couldn't do the "turn over"! Now, you know why I often sign my posts "Itinerant mountebank"! In my haste to write that post above, I was thinking of that "conservative Senator suit"! (not too theatrical!) A tux would be a bit "over dressed" in a gymnasium where about 75% of school shows are performed! At one time, I owned a half dozen tuxedos. I was doing a lot of club dates at Holiday time in Chicago. Howard Shultz kept me busy! Note: In school shows, I used the jacket as "walk on wardrobe". (Circus acrobats--usually the "flying" acts"-- generally wear a cape over their working wardrobe. The cape comes off before they climb to their rigging.) My coat came off with my opening lines. (I drove the kids crazy! NO SLEEVES!!!) I did work mostly with silks, rope, golf balls, egg bag, rings,and coin pail! The whole program weighed 22 lbs. and packed in a "fat" attache case. Set up time: 4 minutes, and, it could work almost anywhere for almost anybody. In early years, I used a Disecto.) I discuss that sort of thing in the book. I had seen Magrum almost kill himself, schlepping in TEN cases of props and FIVE tables. --THAT, gets discussed "per longum et latum" in the book, too. My program was "sold" to the principal as, a "Maximum of Showmanship, and a Minimum of Props"! I stayed booked for almost fifty years, The comment cards were enthusiastic. I had more than my share of repeat dates, encores, and standing ovations! I seldom blew a date! (except for extreme bad weather) the "office" would send me in to "square the beef" for a program (sometimes a MAGIC program) that had not "delivered"! Some of those stories are in the book, too. If I had been working the "Las Vegas Circuit", perhaps I would have needed more flash. Paul Daniels was booked for a Vegas "Big Room", He walked backstage in the afternoon, and was met by the stage manager, who said, "This is not a public space, sir." Paul replied, I'm the magician." The stage manager turned and said to one of his stage hands, "Open up the load in door! The magician is here!" Turning to Paul, he said, "Your driver can back the truck right up to our dock, and roll everything in!" Paul replied, pointing to the case under his arm, " I have the props right here. I would like to borrow a "deuce" (table for two)." Mark Leddy, who was Jay Marshall's agent, once told Jay, "Every time you pick up a prop, your money goes down." Billy McComb carried an attache case with props for five 45 minute acts, when he did cruise ships. I have no "quarrel" with fellows who prefer to carry several cases of props. (Suum cuique!--To each, his own!) Hekk! Del RAY had to drive to his dates. He couldn't afford to fly his props! (that "electronic" table!!!) The logistics of a "road" act, and a "forty miler" act, are "somewhat" different. Each has a "place" in the business!!! --I think that Victor Borge used a local piano! --and, had it delivered to the auditorium! (one more HeeHee!) I always look for your name in the list of people who have posted comments. You always have something to say. And, it's always worth the time to read. I hope that the young fellows read, study, and use the information they you provide. Maybe I'll go back to Abbott's, one more time, and we can get together for a "session"! Most of my old friends, have gone to the grand tour "up there". I would need to meet a whole bunch of new friends! Yr's, 'til the square circle is empty!!! O
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Engine Regular user 123 Posts |
I mentioned my wardrobe only to facilitate the conversation with respect to body loads. My attire is perfectly suited (pun intended) to the types of shows I do.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Hello Engine! I sincerely did not mean to insult you, nor disparage your choice of wardrobe. --and, I also sincerely apologize if you inferred that I did.
I've never done the silk fountain. As I mentioned to Bill, I pictured a business suit as a very conservative "banker suit". That just did not fit my "picture" of a performer doing a "flash" routine. Bill has reminded me that suits can be very "dashing". Neil Foster had a slightly bigger "cabbage", which he just picked up from his table. The table was an 'open top box". so that MOST of the "czbbage was inside and out of sight. The outside silk was a fairly dark purple. Earlier, he had used a purple silk and had just dropped it on top of the "cabbage". To do the fountain, he just picked up the purple silk which covered the load. He walked down stage, almost to the footlights, inverted the load, and started the production. The silks were loaded in a definite order so that as each silk opened, the shade would slowly change. For example, the first silk was a light pink, the second a bit more pink,the third even more pink, until the last was red. Then a light blue progressively a darker blue, etc. The final silk was a six foot sunburst (Abbott's "Mammoth Production"). When it opened, it was obviously the finish! Frankly, I always though that the big silk was a fine finish. Then, magicians started 'improving'! I'm not against adding a "kicker", but, I also remember Al Baker's comment. ("Many good tricks have died of improvements!" Michael has made some excellent suggestions, So between us, I hope that we have given you some things to consider.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
I'm not sure I understand your question.
i have used a silk fountain for 15 years. the last 8 years using a silk fountain to dove. the last 3 years using my own updated and reworked idea of silk fountain to dove. i also created a silk fountain for my daughters act that ends with a 6 foot butterfly silk. pretty much anything you want to produce at the end can be done as long as you can figure out how to fit it in or create a steal for it. for example after producing the 36" silk finale or 6' silk finale - that provides a lot of cover for you to steal some thing else. so to answer your question more elegant silk finale could be the butterfly silk or talk to one of the silk makers here on the Café and get a custom silk made with what ever design you want! as for the steal - with out knowing your routine I could not make the best suggestions. i don't know if this is part of a manipulation routine or just a stand alone routine. suggestion I would make is maybe have a top hat with the silk fountain set inside and perform something like snap silks and put the silks over the top hat and then at the end remove all the silks stealing the load along with it. one other idea that I plan to implement for either my daughters act or mine is to add a flag staff kicker ending after the large silk is produced it is enough cover to steal a flag staff and produce that. good luck and hope this helps sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
SAM::
I have two Abbott flag staffs, which are in "like new" condition. One is the "big one" and one is the "little one". PM me. Maybe we can make a deal. (I also have an Abbott "Mammoth Production" (6' sunburst) Dick
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Dick
i did Pm you and hoping to hear from you soon thanks
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, Bill Hegbli wrote: That's exactly what I did years ago when I performed at Magic Mountain. I started off with a dancing cane that turned into two silks. Then the rose to silk. From these three I did a Blendo. Then finally into the Silk Fountain. As the fountain ended, an appearing cane slowly cane forth. The trick came to full circle this way. I also designed an act for a woman friend of mine that wanted to do a Japanese act. I started off with a candle and then had it end with the candle being produced from the fountain. |
Anverdi-museum Inner circle 1193 Posts |
The problem I have with the silk fountain is not so much a finale but where to steal the fountain from...I have always used Manfred Thumm's method of stealing it from a champagne bottle I produce...in the attached brief video you will see just that, I built the effect from directions of his that appeared in a magic magazine many years ago. The clip is from my recent 25th wedding anniversary my wife and I celebrated, I also used an LED bag ( the lights in bag did not show on camera but were visible to the audience ), Tambourine production, Hindu Basket which I had in storage for over twenty years...my wife did a great job!
Note: The cigarette in performance was not real but a vape and was explained to the aud. before performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2JsyvKKuIw |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Since this tread has been brought back to life, I will share an approach I re-tried stimulated by the original postings.
I begin with producing a black and a white silk and gradually add color, ending with a Sympathetic Silks effect. It is easy to steal the Silk Fountain in the the bundle of silks at the end. As the fountain unfolds I steal a color changing streamer. I extract this as if it came form the fountain end with it changing back to black and white. -- an obvious finale.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Paul Jester Special user UK 759 Posts |
As a close to an opener I used a classic dove style production from a pair of gloves for a silk fountain with a centre of spring flowers and about 6 long white ribbons to finish. It was very pretty! The ribbons would unroll to the floor as I lifted the fountain at the end, the spring flowers tied in with the rest of the opening. The whole load was "dove" sized and self-contained with no further steals required to conclude.
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
The original poster who started this thread (Engine) in April 2015, also started another thread on the same topic in April 2012, which had other responses.
I thought some might appreciate reading through it. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......c=462024 ---- I recently had some surgery, so I'm taking a few weeks off of performing for recovery. I've been catching up on watching magic DVDs during my recovery period. For example, I have about 25 different DVDs just from Duane Laflin, that I'm slowly making my way through. I bought them from him at a convention in January 2015, but I hadn't really watched many of them yet. On his DVDs, he uses a 5"-7" open top box (the type of decorated box you can buy from a dollar store), on top of his table, or held by his assistant. He puts silks and gimmicks in and out of the box (drapes the silks over the side of the box). This is an alternative to using a top hat as your receptacle. It would be easy to have the fountain hidden in that box, and then drape other silks over top of it, as you perform routines that lead into the fountain. Then grab those silks and the fountain. Duane has released a Silk Fountain DVD, a Magical Production Value DVD, and a Silken Sequences and Steals DVD, that can help you more. https://www.laflinmagicstore.com/The-Sil......vdsf.htm https://www.laflinmagicstore.com/Silken-......dsss.htm https://www.laflinmagicstore.com/Expert-......desm.htm https://www.laflinmagicstore.com/Magical......dmpv.htm ---- Another idea. I watched a video link above, and someone just set his silks down onto on the floor once they were produced. Whenever I do a silk production routine, I set them on top of my table. I also bring along a folding laundry hamper. It is set to the side of my stage area, opened. After I remove the silks off of the top of my table, I put them into the open hamper. I guess that is like a ditch bucket or ditch table like some performers use. That way I'm not placing the silks onto the floor. You also don't want to just push the bundle of produced silks back into the drawer box or square circle that they just came out of... you want to maintain the illusion that the items you produced are "large" / "bulky". I fold the hamper down, without any silks in it, when going to and from a show, so that it takes up less room for packing. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
One more thought. I ran out of time while editing my post above.
Here's a photo that shows my folding laundry hamper in the background, so you can understand what I'm talking about. The red folding hamper, behind me, to the side of my backdrop. That is where I put the silks when I'm done with that production routine. In my square circle routine, after producing a number of silks from the tube (including several 36" silks - solid colour and picture silks, a 60' long rainbow streamer, and a 6' tie dye silk), and also performing silk through mirror with one of the 36" silks, I produce a large multi-colour flag from the bundle of silks. You can't really see the large bundle of silks in my other hand in this photo, because it is somewhat behind the flag. But that bundle of silks will be set back down on top of my table, and eventually moved into the hamper. I even put the flag into the hamper, when the routine is over. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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