|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4..11~12~13 [Next] | ||||||||||
AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Well,well, well... I'm very busy at the moment, but stay tuned, a long answer is boiling.
|
|||||||||
Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts |
I'm not sure they're quite as "secret" as they're being made out:
https://coolotis.wordpress.com/new-visit......ted-here https://coolotis.wordpress.com/pocket-trimmer-forum/ |
|||||||||
Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts |
Here's a very, very basic primer on N-Strippers, initially written by an associate of mine for a small group of interested souls, originally used as a one-sheet written primer to go along with a live demonstration. Combined with the information I linked to above, it should be enough to at least let one understand the basics of N-Strippers. If you have access to Doc's old N-Stripper videos, you're even further ahead. This just to whet everybody's appetite for Jason and Arnold's upcoming N-Stripper releases!:
Simply put, the N-Stripper has the work put in multiple locations on the long and short sides of the cards such that multiple different sets of cards can be stripped from the same deck. As well, the work is so fine as to be many times more deceptive than a belly-in deck. As opposed to being cut with a blade of knife, N-Stripper work is typically put in by sanding the card in the desired locations. This sanding can easily put in with a fiber fingernail file, as available from any cosmetics counter. N-Strippers are difficult to pull, and typically require a great deal of practice to benefit from their use. Although the N-Stripper can pull multiple sets of different cards, any combination of between a single set, up to 5 sets is typical, depending on the game being played, or the decks intended use. In a deck set to pull 5 different sets, 3 will typically be pulled from work put in on the long side, and two pulled with work put in on the short side (ends). This also places N-Strippers (somewhat obtusely) into the Combination Stripper category. The principal behind pulling N-Strippers is also what makes them extremely difficult to pull, but at the same time is what makes them highly deceptive. If the deck is held in the left hand (for right handed users), between the thumb and forefinger, with the thumb and forefinger placed over one of the concave sanded areas, this results in the deck essentially supported by all the playing cards that aren’t sanded in that location (re-read that sentence a few times for clarity). The sanded cards (target cards) are simply resting within the deck supported by the cards above and below them. This lack of direct support from the fingers makes them unique in the deck, because drawing the right hand thumb and forefinger down the long side of the deck will cause those un-sanded cards to remain in place due to the friction of the left hands thumb and forefinger. However, this same right hand drawing action can “pull out” our sanded target cards, as those cards experience no friction from the forefinger and thumb of the left hand (due to the sanded scallop in the target cards). The target cards will pull out of the deck approximately ¼ inch or so (based on the length of the sanded scallop), at which time the unmodified portion of the long side of the cards (to each side of the scallop) will cause the target cards to encounter friction and stop. But by the time the target cards stop, they will protrude far enough from the deck to be gripped by the thumb and forefinger of the right hand, and pulled the remainder of the way out of the deck. The above is all done in a seamless motion, and taking only a split second. The mechanics of the stripping action are based on a very tiny bit of the flesh on the right thumb and forefinger contacting one wall of the sanded convex area of the N-Stripper, which causes that target card (or cards) to begin to move, while the rest of the deck remains stationary in the left hand. By sanding each set of target cards in different locations along the long and short sides, completely different groups of target cards can be pulled from the deck. The above description may make the process seem somewhat easy, whereas in reality it remains exceptionally difficult. The lengthy learning process first requires the miscreant to gain 100% proficiency in stripping a single set of target cards….then deceptively manipulating those cards to an advantage. Different grips are required for work put in towards the ends of the long sides of the cards as is required for handling cars with the work put in near the center of the long side. Completely different grip and technique is again required for handling target cards that have had the work put in on the short sides. Working all the combinations deceptively at the table makes the N-Sripper a difficult stripper deck to work with. The pay-off for those who endure the learning process is a most flexible and most deceptive technique. |
|||||||||
JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Artie,
The fact that you had to reach to the internet for something published only 3 years ago is hysterical! You realize you're proving my point by doing so, right? Jason PS: I have one of Todd's later, pocket cutters. I sometimes use it for demos, but usually sand by hand.
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
|
|||||||||
Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts |
Jason, my somewhat casual point was only that what N-Strippers are, and how they pull is not as deeply underground as folks seem to imply it is.
Although I disagree with those who state that they were tipped years ago by Malek (they weren't, they were noted, but not tipped), they were described in the Castle Notebooks such that they could be easily understood. But I agree with you, three years isn't a very long time. And I'd further agree with you that even 5 years ago, N-Strippers were much further underground than they are today. But I would still note that there are plenty of folks around today who know what N-Strippers are, and how they work. What I will give you in spades however, is that of the group of people I'm talking about, there is likely only a very small percentage who have any idea about what N-Strippers can do beyond pulling cards out of the deck. In the short description posted above, only one short line make reference to manipulating the cards "to an advantage", something that still remains somewhat under the radar. It blunt terms, pulling them is one thing, but knowing what to do with them once they're manipulated such that they project from the deck in some fashion is something else entirely. I too have one of Lassen's small pocket cutters, and although handy for demos, or to make a deck for a friend, a small piece of P2500 grit wet'n'dry sandpaper presents a much finer, and often undetectable cut. |
|||||||||
JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Artie,
I don't measure secrets by how many people know them. I measure them by how many people don't know them. Imagine some Lockheed executive sitting in his office trying to tell you that since 2,000 people in his building know the design specs of a new spy plane they're building that those specs are not "secret." Of course they are! Just because 2000 people know the information means nothing. You have to look to the 25,000,000 aviation enthusiasts worldwide that would love a chance at looking at those design specs to determine if they're secret or not. Unless you're more involved in the amateur magic scene than I think you are, you only have one side of the equation - you spend time talking to people that know about negs. But you aren't out lecturing for magic groups and asking people to raise their hands if they know what negs are and seeing a room full of people staring blankly at you. I'm telling you, they just don't know! Please understand - I'm not suggesting these people couldn't have found out what negs are over the years - I'm only reporting that they HAVEN'T. The information was out there, in several places. I know Arnold could probably document dozens and dozens of references to negs going back over 100 years. But if no one was paying attention to those references (other than die-hards like us), and if the ones that did read the descriptions didn't quite understand them (a reasonable assumption considering the sparse nature of good information), then it's no surprise that these things are still little-known amongst mainstream magicians. I realize that there are degrees of secrecy in the world. But when you determine a concept's "secretness" (I just made that word up), the important factor isn't the number of "knowers" it's the number of non-knowers. The method behind a chop-cup is a "secret" to non-magicians: they don't know it and there are people out there that make a conscious effort to prevent them from finding out. Boom - that's a secret. Could they find out how it works with a quick Google search? Sure. But that speaks to the impenetrability of a secret, not to its status as a secret. Those are different things. At the end of the day, published information that few bothered to read and even fewer understood is just about as secret as information that was never published in the first place. Jason PS: I'm still waiting for someone to explain the complete lack of exposure videos on YouTube. I think that's an unbelievably telling piece of "non-information."
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
|
|||||||||
Kabbalah Inner circle 1621 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2015, JasonEngland wrote: I think you have already answered that question.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green "The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them." ~ John Northern Hilliard |
|||||||||
Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Hey Jason...not true....
Here is a video of a Negative Stripper in action. Watch till end of video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4B888bSZE Talking about exposure.
Long Island,
New York |
|||||||||
Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2015, JasonEngland wrote: 30 catalogs! 30 catalogs!!! I never had 30 KC Co. catalogs in my entire life. Maybe 4 or 5. You have me at a serious disadvantage here. Joking aside. To clarify, Concave Strippers are not N-Strippers although the principle is the same. N-Strippers are a variation of Concaves and based upon the same principle. In fact, N-Stripper terminology did not even exist back in those days and was never described as such. Keep in mind, gamblers have their own terminology and magicians have theirs. It appears to me that N- Strippers is a term devised by magicians, not hustlers. KC Co. made the same type statements as HC Evans in the body of their description of concave work being notched by some companies but I am operating from memory going back 50 years or so. However, I am pretty sure of that. Your interpretation of the KC/Evans statements may be correct but would be different from my interpretation since I saw some of the type work being sold back in those days. I was actually there and dealt with these companies directly. The concave cuts were somewhat notched by some companies instead of using the nice clean symmetrical concave cuts and were considered of lower quality and inferior. From what I recall, the notched work was more noticeable than the concave cuts but if one knows what he is looking for, they are still both stripper decks and detectible as such. |
|||||||||
Ross Tayler Regular user Rugby, England 127 Posts |
Jason,
I take your point absolutely. I suppose I didn't consider the scale of the market to which you were catering. My initial statement could probably be refined to: "They don't strike me as much of a secret amongst people who are interested in this type of work." Perhaps that would be too inclusive? I'm doubting my own judgement now; as you point out, I don't spend a great deal of time around the "amateur magic scene". You're right in that they don't "feel like a secret" to me (probably specifically because I know about them, yet definitely do not consider myself "more educated than most" - quite the contrary), and this perhaps caused me to overlook the wider picture. Forgive my solipsism. I hope I didn't cause any offence, I simply didn't imagine that anything of which I was aware could really be described in such 'cloak and dagger' terms, so doubted that the project was in fact Ns. I'm now excited as a school girl, both in awaiting what I'm sure will be an incredibly informative download from yourself, and in the knowledge that I know a secret that the other boys and girls haven't heard yet. Very thrilling. Thanks for your response. Best wishes to all, Ross. |
|||||||||
Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2015, JasonEngland wrote: This is just an opinion here and I don't want to get involved in any lengthy debates on this because it is only of casual and momentary interest to me. However, in my opinion the main element of a secret is it is something that is purposely concealed from others. Without that essential element of purposeful concealment, it is not a secret even if it is unknown to 99.99999% of the world population. It is simply little known information. For example, if a heart specialist does not know what N-Strippers are, never heard of them and will never know what they are, he is simply unaware of such information, not because it is being kept secret from him but because such knowledge and information is outside the sphere of knowledge and information that is important or relevant to him. If I don't know there is a new poker tournament at the Bellagio tomorrow, even if most of the people on the planet do not know about it, it is not a secret to them or me, we simply are not aware of this scheduling, either because it is unimportant or because we did not bother to check. However, it there is a closed tournament known only to five people tomorrow, and they cannot and do not tell anyone else because they are sworn to secrecy, that to me would be a secret tournament. If I develop a new technique to do a second deal and share it with two other people and they swear not to divulge it to anyone else, that is a secret even though generally speaking the concept of second dealing is known to many. If I or one of the others subsequently write about and publish this technique, even with limited distribution it is no longer a secret since I am not purposefully withholding that information. This new technique may be unknown to most people, even to most card table aficionados, but it is no longer a secret. So in my opinion it is the purposeful intent of concealing or withholding information from others that makes something a secret and not whether the information has limited distribution or is relatively unknown. Just a thought and my opinion for whatever that is worth. |
|||||||||
Gary Plants Special user 549 Posts |
You nailed it Cag.
|
|||||||||
Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2015, Cagliostro wrote: A lot actually. It would follow that a series of posts, made on the worlds largest magic forum website, noting not only the existence of N-Strippers, but also of a pending instructional download from a major online magic store and featuring a very well known card-man, along with an announced booklet, to be authored by a popular contributor to the magic forums "Gambling Spot" ... well, that might indicate that N-Strippers aren't really much of a secret after all. I would guess that 90% of the magicians on the Magic Café probably know the term "N-Strippers". Once you know the term, and once you get it in your head to find out what they are and how they work, it's simply not that difficult to fulfill your task. Soon, with Jason and Arnold's work on the subject to be available, N-Strippers time as an "underground" item, known to only a few - will be long passed. |
|||||||||
Bobbycash Special user Australia 694 Posts |
I'm just going to put forward my thoughts on the two projects.
I've been incredibly fortunate in being able to see some of Arnold's work on n strippers and it looks amazing. His ability to pull n strippers with such fine work is amazing and his thoughts and applications will be well worth anyone's time and attention, the serious student will get a lot out of it. Jason has always put out quality items, and though I haven't had in depth discussions on n strippers we did talk briefly in person about them last time I saw him. It should be great. While I am slightly sad that this work will be more readily available, learning about them from the two good sources I've listed above will hopefully ensure that they are used well. I am also sure those who have invested the time in learning the technique will still be able to fool the normal magician (as I have). I agree with Cag on his remarks about the secret nature of n strippers, it took me a long time to finally work out how to do the work with normal household items and I knew the right people so I am sure your average punter will not know the method of making and pulling the work. |
|||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
In croupier dealt poker games, players hardly ever handle the deck and so the players in such games are unlikely to nail them in that way. In Omaha the players handle 4, 5 or 6 cards but in Hold’em only 2 and so Hold’em is perhaps the safer game to use them in. Good luck with the enterprise anyway.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2015, Cagliostro wrote: I agree Cag. In fact, I said as much in my first post in this thread: "You need 2 components for something to be a secret: You have to have a large group of people that don't know a specific fact or idea and you have to have another group that is actively trying to prevent the first group from knowing about that fact or idea." Just speaking for myself, I've actively avoided publishing anything about negs for over 20 years. I know many, many others that have avoided publishing anything on them for 40 or more years. And judging from the complete lack of good explanations in print (not just casual mentions or someone's private notebooks published 40 years after the fact), it appears there was an unstated agreement among many of the top card guys in the world to not publicize them. Hence, a secret. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
|
|||||||||
Gary Plants Special user 549 Posts |
Jason,
Are you just selling "your" work that you have personally discovered or are you sharing other peoples techniques and ideas that have been "shared" with you over the years? Just curious? Gary |
|||||||||
Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2015, Artie Fufkin wrote: Amen and great statement. This is something that I have alluded to frequently and what I see as the main problem with the non-hustler magician/hobbyist/demonstrators. For a hustler, no matter what the move (including N-Strippers), he wants to know what do can he do with it beyond the basic move, i.e. how does he use it once he has pulled the cards or controlled them. I have written about this above because to a hustler that is the most important part. But 99%+ people on this BB fall into the non-hustler category. They will never use these methods under fire. Their objective is to show, demonstrate or perform instead. However, in my opinion the lowest form of demonstration or performance is to simply show how cleverly one can pull the cards. What I respect much more for non-hustler types is to master the ability to pull the cards deceptively, (or use cuts and shuffles to locate/control the cards), without others knowing you have done so and then use these controlled cards in some way to accomplish a performance or demo objective that fools people. That I can respect. Just pulling cards out of the deck to show others how proficient you are at doing so is pure idiocy to me. Of course, the exception to this would be if someone is teaching others how to control or use N-Strippers either by book, video or personal instruction or exchanging techniques with one's peers. In those situations, obviously one has to demonstrate how to pull or cut the cards to control them. |
|||||||||
JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Gary,
This video is only the basics - how to make them and pull them, that's about it. It opens with this text: "The information and techniques depicted in this video represent only a small fraction of my knowledge regarding negative strippers. While negative strippers don’t “belong” to anyone, certain specific applications and ideas do. Therefore, there are many other techniques and applications that have been kept secret to protect both the originators (who may not wish to be known) and their creations." Pretty much everything on this video comes from two sources: a very simple lesson Andy Greget gave me 20+ years ago when I first asked him about negs in around '93 or '94 (I'd been making them very crudely until he showed me one of Terry's sanding blocks) and a conversation I had with Martin Nash one night in the late 90s at the Castle where he and I discussed using his Nash Multiple Shift in conjunction with a simple negative pull. It's very basic stuff designed towards beginners only. Negative stripper experts won't learn anything. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
|
|||||||||
Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Here is an ad off the internet advertising an N-Stripper DVDs and a Jig to make them. Selling information on N-Strippers and the jigs is getting to be a cottage industry.
Quote:
N-Strippers In a way, exposures like this are becoming more and more commonplace but that is the nature of things. Fortunately SFT Strippers are not in books, on DVDs or available at your local supermarket. That information is known to a few and passed on by word of mouth only. An Internet search will not help. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » N-strippers (29 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4..11~12~13 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.1 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |