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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I think the nature “racism” is natural as birds of feather stick together. The best one can do is to have laws to make things fair for all. What is really terrible is having laws that are unfair. Love relies on relationship. If everybody loved poker we would get on better.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Whether racism is "natural" I'll leave to the scientists. But the concept of a white race , as opposed to a black race is fairly recent, dating back to the break-up of feudalism and the rise of capitalism. Certainly the particular version of racism that evolved in the United States has its own peculiar characteristics. But what I am talking about is not a "feeling" that one person has towards another, but a set of enforced social codes on an institutional level, in the corporate workplace, in the legal arena, in the criminal justice system, in the prison system, in the law enforcement system, in the educational system, in the housing market, and so on.
It might be easier to understand what I'm talking about if you look at South Africa before Mandela. Apartheid was an institutional system that officially granted white privilege. That's not a point of dispute by anybody. Now that doesn't mean that white South Africans themselves were all racists. Far from it. The white South Africans that I am friendly with here in the US are not racist, quite the opposite. But whatever their personal feelings, they still benefited from the system of institutionalized white privilege. That system--and the people who supported that system--is what needed to be condemned, not any individual white person. It's different in the US because within the last fifty years or so, Apartheid is no longer an official US government policy. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist de facto. Take a look, for example, at Michelle Alexander's book The New Jim Crow for a detailed account of how de facto racism has replaced legal racism at every turn in US history.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Kabbalah Inner circle 1621 Posts |
I am growing more and more tired of the vilification of white people.
What is the motivation to do it constantly?
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green "The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them." ~ John Northern Hilliard |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, Kabbalah wrote: If you actually read and comprehend what I wrote, I specifically did not vilify white people. Quote:
That system--and the people who supported that system--is what needed to be condemned, not any individual white person. But your comment puts me in mind of this, and your own motivations: http://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8847385/wha......antation
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Kabbalah Inner circle 1621 Posts |
The whole white privilege rant is a vilification of white people.
And, what are my motivations? I thought Bob was the mindreader?
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green "The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them." ~ John Northern Hilliard |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
I think the motivations of those espousing white guilt much more interesting.
What exactly is the purpose? Not to vilify white people? Maybe to develop white guilt? To what end? Reparations? More social welfare? Class warfare? |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I wouldn't know since I don't espouse white guilt. But I've learned correcting misattributions three times now is not necessarily a charm when being misquoted.
On the other hand, identifying the mechanisms of systems of oppression, such as white privilege, is an important first step for those who are oppressed and their allies.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, rockwall wrote: Perhaps to enhance understanding.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, Kabbalah wrote: To say that one group is objectively more privileged within a given society is not a vilification. If you can't understand that basic concept, it's not surprising that you would feel defensive.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Kabbalah Inner circle 1621 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, landmark wrote: Who are the "oppressed" that you speak of?
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green "The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them." ~ John Northern Hilliard |
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Kabbalah Inner circle 1621 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, landmark wrote: There is no *white privilege*. It is the idea of it that people like you continue to promote.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green "The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them." ~ John Northern Hilliard |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Oh, I suspect there is MUCH more motivation than simply to enhance understanding. I would bet that you do also. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, landmark wrote: Well, thank goodness you don't feel I should feel guilty because of my white privilege. (since I don't, but do you?) But then, if identifying those mechanisms is the first step, what is the 2nd step? For instance, how do you repair those terribly damaging effects of enslavement and the denial of rights and wealth that were passed down? |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, rockwall wrote: Let's add the clause, "by challenging unwarranted self-congratulation"
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, tommy wrote: But opposites attract. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, rockwall wrote: Really if you're going to keep not reading what I wrote, then it's going to be a pretty tedious conversation. I try to set my limit at three for repeating what's in plain sight, but since it's the Fourth, I'll go for four. Would it help if I bolded the relevant phrases? Quote:
That system--and the people who supported that system--is what needed to be condemned, not any individual white person. Quote:
I'm not saying that because you have white skin privilege, that you're a racist. White skin privilege is just a fact of a racist society, not a fact about any one individual. All whites, including myself are recipients of white skin privilege. It's like getting extra point sin the game of life. It doesn't mean you will win, but it gives you a head start. Quote: I wouldn't know since I don't espouse white guilt.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, Kabbalah wrote: Yes, Black people have none of their own agency or powers of perception; nor do they have a right to their own lived experience, because you say it isn't so. According to you, they only say and do what they do because of commands from White Liberal Central Command. Could you be any more condescending?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Now who isn't reading what others write? You are correct though. It is tedious.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2015, tommy wrote: I remember a Southern politican in the 60s holding a press conference. I can't remember the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of; "They will tell you; 'everyone is equal in God's eye.' what hogwash! The robin and the blackbird don't live in the forest together in harmony." And I thought, "Well, maybe. But the robin isn't passing laws to keep the blackbirds in the back of the forest."
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 3, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Well, page "13" has the big red table now.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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