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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10798 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 12:37 am 0 Quote: On Jun 24, 2015, magicman29 wrote: Quick question for Lloyd or anyone else who can answer before I hit the buy button, can the card for morpheus be handed out if need be or would a switch be needed? Kieran Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10798 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 12:39 am 0 Quote: On Jun 24, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote: Quote: On Jun 24, 2015, saysold1 wrote: I'm not a card guy but a friend brought this to my attention and to me it looks like re-working of the classic ww gimmick. That's my guess folks and I'm sure I'm not the first to come to that conclusion. Price seems very reasonable. If I may ask what happens if the spec wants to examine the card? Very, very different to a Wow gimmick. Worlds apart. Myself and Daniel Madison cover this extensively on the explanation; if you can do a double lift, you can do CHANGE. You will never* be asked by them to see the card. All is explained in the instructions. Please can everyone stop trying to publicly "guess" the method now? Thanks for the great explanation - but guesses prior to a new release is and always has been part of the allowable rules and DNA of this section of the Café. Drives creators and people like Peter Nardi crazy at times. Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Lloyd Barnes Special user 545 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 12:43 am 1 Quote: On Jun 24, 2015, saysold1 wrote: Quote: On Jun 24, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote: Quote: On Jun 24, 2015, saysold1 wrote: I'm not a card guy but a friend brought this to my attention and to me it looks like re-working of the classic ww gimmick. That's my guess folks and I'm sure I'm not the first to come to that conclusion. Price seems very reasonable. If I may ask what happens if the spec wants to examine the card? Very, very different to a Wow gimmick. Worlds apart. Myself and Daniel Madison cover this extensively on the explanation; if you can do a double lift, you can do CHANGE. You will never* be asked by them to see the card. All is explained in the instructions. Please can everyone stop trying to publicly "guess" the method now? Thanks for the great explanation - but guesses prior to a new release is and always has been part of the allowable rules and DNA of this section of the Café. Drives creators and people like Peter Nardi crazy at times. Understandable. Just seems impolite. I remember starting out I would take wild stabs at methods that people at worked on for a long time. Then I realised that's not how we act if trying to show respect towards one and other. YouTube Patreon
kollo Regular user 129 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 05:00 am 0 Hi Lloyd, doing Morpheus in a parlour/stage situation, -is it possible to show the front of the card (for at least a blink, a casual turnover)? - can the morpheus card be handled like a regular card, for example in a packet trick? Thanks, Kollo
TheAmazingSteveo Inner circle 1578 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 06:11 am 0 This looks very Cool Lloyd, I purchased one today at Ellusionst. I have a lot of ideas putting this into some routines that I do now.
magicman29 Inner circle hertfordshire 1245 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 06:52 am 0 Lloyd I don't think people are trying to guess the method, we are just asking questions about the handling of the gimmicks....Are we not entitled to ask a couple of questions before we purchase? Kieran
RedHatMagic Loyal user UK 239 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 06:58 am 1 Asking magicians not to try to work out methods is like asking cats not to chase mice. Let the Entertainment Commence!
Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 08:19 am 2 Quote: On Jun 24, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote: Then I realised that's not how we act if trying to show respect towards one and other. You must be new here... Official Thread Killer
magic_tony Loyal user 277 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 09:02 am 0 This looks very clever, but I wonder if spectators will just think to themselves (regarding the slow colour change) "it's just a special card that changes colour by itself". So rather than attributing the change to some kind of skill on the part of the magician like most 'mechanical' colour changes, it might look more like just a self-working special card. Can you get the card to change by itself? So, for example, can you show it as red, place it face up on the table and it will be blue when it's turned over? Or perhaps effect the change quickly as you turn the card over? Also, are the blue/red colours of the deck an exact colour match of regular cards?
robd Loyal user 251 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 11:44 am 3 If I'd released an effect which was extensively hyped as 'life-changing' and claimed to 'change the face of magic forever', I'd expect some debate online about what it actually was. Particularly if it was on sale as pre-order, with a limited supply, and the only demo of it was a "no-spectator, fixed camera angle, zero set-up and clean-up" video. I certainly wouldn't suggest that such debate was impolite or showed a lack of respect. But that's just me.
Robmonster Elite user 455 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 11:52 am 0 "Life-changing" and "change the face of magic forever" are both essentially meaningless phrases. Your life changes every second, and I'm not quite sure what the 'face of magic' actually is.
RNK Inner circle 7528 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 11:55 am 0 Thanks Lloyd for answering my questions. Good luck with the release! In my case, I am to careless to take care of one gimmick let alone 5 different gimmicks, lol. They always end up getting broke or destroyed which is why I took the old school route to learn the sleights. IMO and experience, layman are just as amazed with sleight of hand card magic without gimmicks if presented right. Does not mean I do not love the visual aspect gimmicked card magic accomplishes. Just means I have learned in the majority of my professional working strolling environments they are not for me. That being said, IMO, without seeing the gimmicks and based on the demo vid, it seems the price is right for what you get if this is what you like. RNK Check out Bafflingbob.com
GeraintClarke Special user 661 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 11:57 am 0 Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, robd wrote: If I'd released an effect which was extensively hyped as 'life-changing' and claimed to 'change the face of magic forever', I'd expect some debate online about what it actually was. Particularly if it was on sale as pre-order, with a limited supply, and the only demo of it was a "no-spectator, fixed camera angle, zero set-up and clean-up" video. I certainly wouldn't suggest that such debate was impolite or showed a lack of respect. But that's just me. The reason magic companies make those trailers, is because people see a double lift and dismiss the power of the effect. Or people exclaim " I KNOW HOW IT'S DONE " The method is the least important thing in magic, it's the effect that's important. Clean-ups and get-readys will be taught with the product, but as magicians we'll all be able to re-engineer it from the trailer, and people are less likely to want to see the entire thing. Much like a movie only shows highlights in a trailer, to get you to go and see the film. The trailer isn't there to teach you the trick, it's there to sell it to you.
robwar0100 Inner circle Buy me some newspapers.Purchase for me 1 Gazette and 1747 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 12:03 pm 0 Quote: On Jun 24, 2015, Chessmann wrote: Well, I drank the Kool-Aid on this, just for fun Ordered about 10 minutes ago. I have a sneaking suspicion I know how it is done, but its just a guess. I'll know a few days after it ships on the 28th, assuming no delays. Chessman, Thanks for sharing some of the Kool-Aid with me. I drank it, too. Bobby "My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
RNK Inner circle 7528 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 12:14 pm 5 Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote: Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, robd wrote: If I'd released an effect which was extensively hyped as 'life-changing' and claimed to 'change the face of magic forever', I'd expect some debate online about what it actually was. Particularly if it was on sale as pre-order, with a limited supply, and the only demo of it was a "no-spectator, fixed camera angle, zero set-up and clean-up" video. I certainly wouldn't suggest that such debate was impolite or showed a lack of respect. But that's just me. The reason magic companies make those trailers, is because people see a double lift and dismiss the power of the effect. Or people exclaim " I KNOW HOW IT'S DONE " The method is the least important thing in magic, it's the effect that's important. Clean-ups and get-readys will be taught with the product, but as magicians we'll all be able to re-engineer it from the trailer, and people are less likely to want to see the entire thing. Much like a movie only shows highlights in a trailer, to get you to go and see the film. The trailer isn't there to teach you the trick, it's there to sell it to you. Maybe. But there are creators out there such as Tony Miller, JM and Cameron Francis to name a few that DO show you FULL uncut performances of what you get and because of this get a lot of sales. They understand they are selling to magicians whether hobbyists or professionals and want us to be as informed as we can to make our decision on whether or not the product/effect is something that will work for us. It's not about trying to sell the product to everybody, it's about whether the product will fit the performer. To me, this shows they have great admiration and respect for the art and the performers. Though, I understand for most it's about sell sell sell. Which is understandable, after all a lot of creators depend on this as it's their livelihood. Though, IMO, there is greater respect for those creators that are willing to show the entire routine for buyers to base their purchasing decision. RNK Check out Bafflingbob.com
weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 12:54 pm 1 Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, RNK wrote: Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote: Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, robd wrote: If I'd released an effect which was extensively hyped as 'life-changing' and claimed to 'change the face of magic forever', I'd expect some debate online about what it actually was. Particularly if it was on sale as pre-order, with a limited supply, and the only demo of it was a "no-spectator, fixed camera angle, zero set-up and clean-up" video. I certainly wouldn't suggest that such debate was impolite or showed a lack of respect. But that's just me. The reason magic companies make those trailers, is because people see a double lift and dismiss the power of the effect. Or people exclaim " I KNOW HOW IT'S DONE " The method is the least important thing in magic, it's the effect that's important. Clean-ups and get-readys will be taught with the product, but as magicians we'll all be able to re-engineer it from the trailer, and people are less likely to want to see the entire thing. Much like a movie only shows highlights in a trailer, to get you to go and see the film. The trailer isn't there to teach you the trick, it's there to sell it to you. Maybe. But there are creators out there such as Tony Miller, JM and Cameron Francis to name a few that DO show you FULL uncut performances of what you get and because of this get a lot of sales. They understand they are selling to magicians whether hobbyists or professionals and want us to be as informed as we can to make our decision on whether or not the product/effect is something that will work for us. It's not about trying to sell the product to everybody, it's about whether the product will fit the performer. To me, this shows they have great admiration and respect for the art and the performers. Though, I understand for most it's about sell sell sell. Which is understandable, after all a lot of creators depend on this as it's their livelihood. Though, IMO, there is greater respect for those creators that are willing to show the entire routine for buyers to base their purchasing decision. RNK I agree RNK. I always show the full product before I bury it so the customer has a great idea of what they are getting. They touch them, kiss them, and handle them. (I hate to have to dig them back up.) I also want to say that the comment earlier that you were fishing was uncalled for, in my opinion, and such a direct accusation I find a bit offensive. (Besides, you probably would not be able to build the gimmick if you knew the method and makes me wonder if I would still buy this if I knew the method.)Any question could be seen as fishing if a person was a bit paranoid about it, but I see a lot of later post that really does look like fishing and nothing was said. Actually, before I put down almost $35 total I would have liked more information and a live performance. I once bought a DVD from a major producer for a single effect and when the DVD came the method of the effect wasn't revealed. I and others protested but was told it was a personal handling preference. No money was ever refunded; I felt duped so I have never ordered from that company again and that has been several years and thousands of dollars ago. That said, I thought the 5 gimmicks and DVD were fairly priced and will trust the creator that it is what it is said to be, so I ordered this and hope it is what it says. If not, $34 will not bankrupt me. I will post an honest review when I receive mine. I hope someday someone will create a magic prop that the method can be revealed in its entirety to the magic fraternity and the magi will say, "Wow! Got to buy that." But, that isn't likely to happen. May all your funerals begin with FUN, Weepin' Willie House of Discount Funerals and Birthing Center "Your last mile is always my first priority!" "Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
RNK Inner circle 7528 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 01:03 pm 2 Thanks Weepin Willie. I was going to address Dapperdan but he is a newbie and the regulars who know me here understand that's not what I am about. Lloyd understood me. Anyway- I look forward to your review. When a company is super hyping a product as they are with CHANGE it's always refreshing to read reviews from purchasers. Especially ones like yourself. RNK Check out Bafflingbob.com
robd Loyal user 251 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 01:09 pm 1 Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote: The reason magic companies make those trailers, is because people see a double lift and dismiss the power of the effect. Or people exclaim " I KNOW HOW IT'S DONE " The method is the least important thing in magic, it's the effect that's important. Clean-ups and get-readys will be taught with the product, but as magicians we'll all be able to re-engineer it from the trailer, and people are less likely to want to see the entire thing. Much like a movie only shows highlights in a trailer, to get you to go and see the film. The trailer isn't there to teach you the trick, it's there to sell it to you. So to paraphrase: "This trick which is going to 'change the face of magic' can't be shown in full, or you'll be less likely to buy it." Anyway - you're missing my point. My reply was making the point that complaining that people are discussing the method of an effect which you've extensively hyped and have HUGE claims for, yet is also one which you can't see the full effect from start to finish, is a bit ridiculous. IMHO. Etc.
Jack Straw Inner circle Wichita 1020 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 01:17 pm 1 Well said, Willie. Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow We can share the women, we can share the wine
DynaMix Inner circle 1146 Posts	Posted: Jun 25, 2015 02:01 pm 2 Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, RNK wrote: Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote: Quote: On Jun 25, 2015, robd wrote: If I'd released an effect which was extensively hyped as 'life-changing' and claimed to 'change the face of magic forever', I'd expect some debate online about what it actually was. Particularly if it was on sale as pre-order, with a limited supply, and the only demo of it was a "no-spectator, fixed camera angle, zero set-up and clean-up" video. I certainly wouldn't suggest that such debate was impolite or showed a lack of respect. But that's just me. The reason magic companies make those trailers, is because people see a double lift and dismiss the power of the effect. Or people exclaim " I KNOW HOW IT'S DONE " The method is the least important thing in magic, it's the effect that's important. Clean-ups and get-readys will be taught with the product, but as magicians we'll all be able to re-engineer it from the trailer, and people are less likely to want to see the entire thing. Much like a movie only shows highlights in a trailer, to get you to go and see the film. The trailer isn't there to teach you the trick, it's there to sell it to you. Maybe. But there are creators out there such as Tony Miller, JM and Cameron Francis to name a few that DO show you FULL uncut performances of what you get and because of this get a lot of sales. They understand they are selling to magicians whether hobbyists or professionals and want us to be as informed as we can to make our decision on whether or not the product/effect is something that will work for us. It's not about trying to sell the product to everybody, it's about whether the product will fit the performer. To me, this shows they have great admiration and respect for the art and the performers. Though, I understand for most it's about sell sell sell. Which is understandable, after all a lot of creators depend on this as it's their livelihood. Though, IMO, there is greater respect for those creators that are willing to show the entire routine for buyers to base their purchasing decision. RNK Posts like this are what keep me here. 100% spot on. If the "method" is good enough it should actually SPUR sales, not slow them down. If the routine adds nothing new to the plot or is wildly impractical it belongs in the junk drawer with all of the other garbage. Simple additions such as "diy project" or "takes one time set up" are frequently left out and thereby leave customers burned. ALL the time. It's not about sell sell sell. It should be about quality. Contribute something meaningful and you will actually move things forward as well as build the kind of customer base you want. 99% of products I have learned to wait for reviews on. The biggest compliment I can give a creator is when they make it to that 1% and I'm WILLING to preorder. Because I TRUST them.
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