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Ian Rowland Special user London 889 Posts |
Criticism which is informed and constructive is always welcome. Unfortunately, not everyone can manage this.
And so to the above 'review' (sic) by Mr. Nerzof. As RW Emerson once said, 'To take apart is the art of those who cannot construct'. Some minor corrections, if I may. "poorly produced booklet". I disagree. The Lecture Notes were intentionally designed so that I could take the master pages (or disk) anywhere in the world, and get copies produced by any high street copy shop. This saves me having to cart tons of paper around airports, and means the notes are less expensive than they would be otherwise. Hence they are 'spiral bound' with stiff covers, rather than 'perfect bound' with glossy, laminated covers. I fail to see why 'spiral bound' should be equated with 'poorly produced'. The Notes I sell from my website are spiral-bound, but they are professionally printed. If the wise Mr. Nerzof knows of a better way to print them which preserves the advantages of on-demand local printing mentioned above, and keeps the costs low to my purchasers, I'm sure he will be good enough to share his wisdom with us all in due course. The paper stock is good, the stiff covers will last a while if you're careful. The writing is, I think, of a good standard (according to purchasers) and the text layout ditto. I'm told the Notes are easy to read and to follow, and that the explanations are thorough. Again, if the talented Mr. Nerzof has work of a better standard to offer us all, so that we can compare his efforts and admire the improvements he is able to make, then I'm sure we'd all be most grateful for this learning opportunity. The illustrations have to be line drawings for the reasons stated above, but are very clear and comprehensible (again, based on customer feedback and people I've met at lectures). Once again, I'm sure that if the very capable Mr. Nerzof can turn out better line illustration, he will soon be along to explain the improvements I should have made. So what's "poorly-produced" about Notes which are professionally printed, well-written, easy to follow, well laid-out, durable and with clear, hgih-quality line art? "The other effects are based on standard methods". Not so. There is an item in the Lecture Notes to which I've given the silly name of 'Elephant From Matchbox'. I would be most grateful to the experienced Mr. Nerzof, who is evidently so knowledgeable about these things, if he could either (a) tell me where he has previously seen this method published and why it qualifies as 'standard method', given that no magician I've met so far who has seen me demonstrate this had ever seen it before, or (b) retract the statement about 'standard methods'. Likewise, there is an item in the Notes called 'Subliminal Prediction' in which I found a way to stick a clear, bold prediction in front of an audience, and even point it out to them several times, with no cover, and yet have it remain unseen until the end of the routine when I WANT them to see it. If Mr. Nerzof thinks this is a 'standard method', I'd be ever so grateful to him if he woould point out where this method has been widely disseminated before. As for 'exposure concerns', these are fully addressed on my website (in the For Magi Only section) and have been for some time. I'm not an exposer, and my very many friends in this business know I'm not.
www.ianrowland.com . Working Magic.
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
I received my copy of these lecture notes recently.
"Poorly bound"?! Nonsense! The spiral binding is excellent and allows the book to be laid flat or even folded back quite easily. The layout is neat, clear, and uncluttered. The routines are explained in pretty close detail, including dialog and presentational logic, and they are all effects I would do. Re: "exposure" - like the man said, he dealt with all that in excruciating detail on his website. Contrary to what Ian says, I found it interesting reading; moreover I found it persuasive. Ian might be tickled to learn that at one time I thought the "PK Dixie Cup" thing or "Black Coffee Mentalism" might actually work. Well, back on topic, I found the notes to be of very good quality as to form and content, and all effects explained in very clear and helpful terms. My rating: 10/10 Oh, BTW...I think it really sucks that you all found about about these lecture notes. I was hoping to keep this all for myself. Sorry Ian. You know how it is...
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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Harvey Nerzof Regular user 193 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-09 16:47, Ian Rowland wrote: After more than 20 years in magic and mentalism, I have indeed the presumption that my reviews are well informed. And they can be as constructive as you want them to be. Quote:
"poorly produced booklet". I disagree. The Lecture Notes were intentionally designed so that I could take the master pages (or disk) anywhere in the world, and get copies produced by any high street copy shop. This saves me having to cart tons of paper around airports What happened during your lectures of last year is an entirely different matter. Now you’re selling the book from your studio over the Internet, and you could have attained a higher production value. The notes have instead kept that cheap homemade feel. Quote:
and means the notes are less expensive than they would be otherwise. and therefore your profit is higher… In any case, you are obviously entitled to produce your books in any way you fancy and sell them at any price you deem appropriate. I am simply saying that these notes are poorly produced. Quote:
Hence they are 'spiral bound' with stiff covers, rather than 'perfect bound' with glossy, laminated covers. I fail to see why 'spiral bound' should be equated with 'poorly produced'. I fail to see how you cannot make the difference!! Quote:
The Notes I sell from my website are spiral-bound, but they are professionally printed. If the wise Mr. Nerzof knows of a better way to print them which preserves the advantages of on-demand local printing mentioned above, and keeps the costs low to my purchasers, I'm sure he will be good enough to share his wisdom with us all in due course. One needs to look no further than your previous publications. Quote:
The writing is, I think, of a good standard (according to purchasers) and the text layout ditto. I'm told the Notes are easy to read and to follow, and that the explanations are thorough. Again, if the talented Mr. Nerzof has work of a better standard to offer us all, so that we can compare his efforts and admire the improvements he is able to make, then I'm sure we'd all be most grateful for this learning opportunity. Please note that I was referring to the material production. The CONTENTS however (including writing, explanations etc.), as mentioned in the review, are certainly of a good standard. Quote:
"The other effects are based on standard methods". Not so. There is an item in the Lecture Notes to which I've given the silly name of 'Elephant From Matchbox'. I would be most grateful to the experienced Mr. Nerzof, who is evidently so knowledgeable about these things, if he could either (a) tell me where he has previously seen this method published and why it qualifies as 'standard method', given that no magician I've met so far who has seen me demonstrate this had ever seen it before, or (b) retract the statement about 'standard methods'. We cannot even speak of a “method” here: this is one rare case where the modus operandi of the effect is sillier than its name. A childish 50/50 trick with a non-examinable gimmicked notepad… please keep that one for your next drink with Derren Brown. Quote:
Likewise, there is an item in the Notes called 'Subliminal Prediction' in which I found a way to stick a clear, bold prediction in front of an audience, and even point it out to them several times, with no cover, and yet have it remain unseen until the end of the routine when I WANT them to see it. If Mr. Nerzof thinks this is a 'standard method', I'd be ever so grateful to him if he woould Well, believe it or not, I do not recall the effect you are mentioning … And I have read the book only a few months ago! This is certainly due to my age, but still – this effect was probably not devised to leave an indelible trace. Ok, fortunately I had the notes around. Here it goes, Subliminal Prediction. Now, a bit off topic, but when I read things like “you will need an extendable pointer, the display board of 16 celebrities, a large photo, some blank card stock, some roughing fluid etc etc etc etc” my mood dangerously darkens. Hopefully you understand why. Anyway, without exposing anything (……………), I really can’t see any particular originality here. What did you come up with, the acr***ic idea? This is what I call a “fresh presentational twist”. Or were you talking about the half moon cut on the card? The force procedure? Sorry I don’t get it – perhaps this is just due to lack of interest. Quote:
As for 'exposure concerns', these are fully addressed on my website (in the For Magi Only section) and have been for some time. I'm not an exposer, and my very many friends in this business know I'm not. It is not my intention to discuss this topic. I have seen a video – enough for me. H.
Download all reviews at http://magicreviews.tripod.com/HN_Magic_Reviews.PDF
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
Quote:
What happened during your lectures of last year is an entirely different matter. Now you’re selling the book from your studio over the Internet, and you could have attained a higher production value. The notes have instead kept that cheap homemade feel. Quote:
I am simply saying that these notes are poorly produced. Mr. Nerzof, your copy must be radically different from the one I received just recently. The interior layout is flawless, including grammar, spelling and punctuation; the line drawings are well-done and well-positioned with respect to the text they illustrate; the front cover and title page are attractive; the wire binding allows easy acces to any portion of the volume and the thing can easily be folded back on itself. I've seen spiral-bound volumes with a single coil that made page-turning, laying flat and folding back of the volume a real headache. When you say "poorly produced", what's your standard of comparison?
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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Harvey Nerzof Regular user 193 Posts |
Seraph127, the “well-done drawings” or “attractive cover” etc. notions are subjective.
Allow me to clarify my views with a few examples and objective indicators. 1. Let’s consider Derren Brown’s Pure Effect (just to be sure that Mr. Rowland owns the book as well…), from H&R Magic Books. Solid hardbound; full color dust jacket; thick paper; clear pictures etc. This is a good quality production – it’s not a question of opinions. 2. Let’s move down the ladder: consider Banachek’s Psychological Subtleties or Psycho-physiological Thoughts, from Magical Inspirations: glued hardbound (not stitched) – it falls apart easily. No dust jacket. 2-color cover. Average production. 3. Further down the spiral, pun intended: Ian Rowland’s Notes. A few A4 pages printed on your local PC. B/W cover. Spiral bound. Poor production. 4. Of course there is always worse, as you correctly pointed out. I do not mention examples here because I am afraid of the off-topic reactions. Finally, the subjective part: I personally prefer to pay a higher price for a top quality / limited distribution item, instead of saving a few $ to get a cheap booklet that all the kids can afford.
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
Quote:
Seraph127, the “well-done drawings” or “attractive cover” etc. notions are subjective. So? Your "poorly produced" is equally subjective, and the "cheap homemade feel" comment (emphasis mine) is manifestly subjective. Additionally, my observations that the text is clearly readable, that the illustrations are close to their corresponding text, and that the spiral binding allows for easy opening of the book are NOT so subjective. Moreover, comparison to Pure Effect or Psychological Subtleties is bait-and-switch. These are lecture notes and I believe it's fairly conventional for these to be comb-bound or spiral-bound (thank God Rowland didn't choose the former option or I might be joining your gripe, in some small measure at least). That's unsurprising - I don't know how one would justify putting a small amount of text in a more-expensive hard binding. After all, while these kinds of publications may be distributed beyond their original scope of the lecture hall, that is where they start and I don't see how either the author or the intended buyers could be expected to afford hardcover lecture notes. Hey, I love luxurious hardback books myself, but it seems a bit unreasonable to expect every set of lecture notes to be published by Miracle Factory!
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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Seth speaks Inner circle New Mexico 1249 Posts |
I completely agree with seraph127 -- the notes are SUPERB, in both the content and the production values. Mr. Nerzof is entitled to his incorrect opinion, of course, but he's obviously confused as to the difference between "Lecture Notes" and "Books"... If he's used to receiving his lecture notes in hand-stitched cloth or perfect-bound volumes with four color covers and lavishly photographed interiors, then he's been practicing a branch of magic with which I'm unfamiliar.
Ian's clear writing, grammar, syntax and humor is absolutely top-notch as usual (he's a professional writer as well as a mentalist), and his line illustrations are unbeatable -- he definitely knows his way around graphic art of all types. In addition, the effects are all awesome! This is one of those rare times when I wasn't disappointed AT ALL. Yes, I'm a gushing fan of Ian's, but there is a REASON for that -- he's a consummate professional AND a great guy. And I'm glad to see he's back on the forum -- I'd feared that his few detractors had chased him away with their feeble-minded "exposer" mantras... ~Seth |
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Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts |
I don't necessarily purchase magic books based upon the production quality. More important to me is the quality of the material contained therein.
And as far as spiral bindings go, I LOVE spiral bindings over all other bindings. Why? Because the book stays open and is perfectly suited for its purpose, namely, instuctional purposes. Nothing is harder than trying to follow multiple complicated instructions that require simultaneous usagae or two hands and then a third hand (or a heavy object like an ashtray) to keep the da** book open at the page you are trying to keep open, read and work with. Real world example? Doug Conn originally released his book "Tricks of My Trade" in a traditional high class binding. (The book quickly went OOP). Earlier this year, Doug re-released the book in e-book format. I quickly printed out the book, added a clear acetate front cover and a thick vinyl back cover and had it spiral bound at Kinko's. I love the spiral binding and would take it over the original any day of the week because I am interested in the book for its instructional utility NOT for its collectibility. Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
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Dave1216 Loyal user 286 Posts |
Personally (and this is just me) if the MATERIAL in the book is good, I don't care if it is written in crayon on the back of a cocktail napkin.
Dave
My new DVD ("The magic of David Corsaro") is now available from your favorite dealer. Watch the DVD that Daryl, Jon Allen, Shawn Farquhar, Boris Wild, Marc DeSouza, Asi Wind and Paul Green ALL ENDORSE.
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Seth speaks Inner circle New Mexico 1249 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-16 17:25, Dave1216 wrote: I wholeheartedly agree. And Ian's material is really fantastic -- it just happens to have great production values, too, compared to many other lecture notes. (The only problem with the crayon on the back of a cocktail napkin is that it takes so darned many of 'em to make a good set of lecture notes..!) ~Seth |
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jbadman Special user London 984 Posts |
It also seems a bit unfair to be comparing the overall production quality of a hardback book with lecture notes... in such a review, surely it's reasonable to compare like with like ?
I don't have the notes yet but I intend to order them. What I don't expect is anything approaching the quality of a well produced hardback book so I'll not be disappointed in that respect. I doubt many people would be either. Jamie.
http://www.underground-collective.com - check out our new DVD now!
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Svengali Regular user USA 138 Posts |
The NMDD routine is worth the price of those lecture notes...
I use it all the time with great reasults! |
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7th_Son Elite user Australia 437 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-11 10:53, Harvey Nerzof wrote: Harvey, please note that all you're really buying is information. I think you're judging a book by it's cover. As an experienced reviewer, you should know better.
"Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet!" - Groucho Marx
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Harvey Nerzof Regular user 193 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-21 00:29, 7th_Son wrote: You are probably right, 7th Son, information is what really matters. On the other hand, I really enjoy those big, heavy, classy, fragrant hardbound books. Quote:
I think you're judging a book by it's cover. As an experienced reviewer, you should know better. I obviously didn’t judge it by its cover – otherwise the notes would have been placed in the “Junk” category… As I said, if we ignore for a moment the exposure/photocopying issues, it is IMO a good booklet.
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Neil Elite user 486 Posts |
I don't see the problem with Harvey's opinion.
If all lecture notes are basic A4 sheets from a laser printer in black and white held together with a plastic comb binder then surely he’s still correct but one could add that most lecture notes ALSO have poor production values. Just because lecture notes are usually cheaply produced doesn’t make any difference. As for the quality of the actual effects….I was a BIT disappointed. I don’t really see much new or terribly exciting. The drawing dupe was definitely interesting but the gimmicked notepad thing was a bit basic. I would have thought any spec might well consider the idea that different answers could have been pre-written on the pad. I thin if one has read Corrinda then the notes don’t add a tremendous amount to the body of thinking on mentalism. I’m not a Rowland basher. I love my Cold Reading notes and use SOT principles but I thought the notes were average. |
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calexa Inner circle Germany 1635 Posts |
It is really strange to compare the production quality of lecture notes with those of books.....
Magixx
Optimists have more fun.....
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wayno Veteran user Canada 323 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-10 19:01, calexa wrote: Quite so. The discussion is "notes" vs. "books". Some try to qualify the product vs. price. However, in magic, it is content vs. price. |
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