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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
Yes, I know this has been discussed at length previously. And yes, I've seached for -- and read -- previous discussion threads on the pros and cons of each. But now, on the verge of making the sizable investment in a top-quality custom silver set, I'm still struggling with deciding which to go with.
(I'm really not too worried about the standard objection that unexpanded shells cannot have their cut-down matching coins easily or cheaply replaced.) The remilled unexpanded sets are very, very tempting, because they have been described as having a superior fit ("like butter") -- perfectly round, crisp edges, deeper coverage. They sound ideal. But on the other hand, some say the cut-down coins for an unexpanded shell look a bit odd -- a bit, well, "cut down" looking (perhaps the rims look too thin, or otherwise not normal?). And I'm also seriously wondering about how well whichever set I ultimately buy will "play well with others." What about routines that involve more than one type of gaff? With an unexpanded set, what happens if a routine calls for also using a copper/silver coin, or a Chinese coin? They wouldn't fit (unless, of course, you also obtained suitably cut-down versions of those, too). An expanded set might therefore REALLY be more versatile, in that respect (and not just in the sense that it could theoretically be used with "borrowed" half dollars -- fat chance of that happening, right?). So, a lot to weigh here (because I do like a lot of effects that use multiple different types of gaffs). But that "buttery" perfect fit of an unexpanded set is also still verrrry tempting. Just thinking out loud, at this point. Grateful for any additional advice....
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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Stanyon Inner circle Landrum, S.C. by way of Chicago 3433 Posts |
I think you have almost reached your own conclusion.
Cheers!
Stanyon
aka Steve Taylor "Every move a move!" "If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!" |
Mobius303 Inner circle Lakewood, Ohio 1309 Posts |
Expanded is more versitile.
The cut down can be good but it depends on who made it. I have a cut down that you can see a mile away and another that you would be hard pressed to tell is cut down at all. The buttery perfect fit tends to stick at inoppertune times and can be a problem. It is easily fixed if that happens but it is most unfortunate when it happens in performance the first few times. With a perfect fit coin it is easy to lose track of that nested piece during a routine unless you really practice the heck out of the routine. I have never had that problem with my expanded sets. Try them out if you can and decide that way as you will definatly feel a difference. You want to be comfortable with your props always. |
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Well, here's the deal. If you are an amature, you want something that works in many routines. If you are a pro, you will focus on a single trick that will become your bread and butter. Then, you will build a routine that works as a unit. You will probably go to someone and have a special set made for you. The turtle will be half blown up. The other coins in the routine will be half sawed off. In some of my routines I use a unexpanded [. Many magicians do not suspect a turtle at all even though it is blantely used.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
If you have a local coin shop, get an expanded [ then pay the shop a visit and go through their cull coins to find your own perfect matches.
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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
Of course, an expanded shell won't fit in most Okito boxes (none of mine, anyway), whereas an unexpanded one will, which would be nice. So there's that to consider, too.
Whichever type I get, I've been thinking of going with Barbers. But they're so thin (thin like English pennies -- five will fit in my Okito boxes) that now I'm wondering how well they might fit over, say, a Chinese coin, depth-coverage-wise (so I might also need some extra thin Chinese coins too, to say nothing of a matching C/S coin). This is getting more & more complicated...!
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, karnak wrote: I believe the David Roth boxes will accept an expanded shell. Pretty nice set too. |
karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
Yes, that's what I've read recently, in doing my "due diligence." Nice to discover. (But all told, the ramifications of upgrading... yike$)
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
HAY You get what Pay For!
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simplymagicweb Inner circle Norfolk, UK 1410 Posts |
I think either - no right or wrong answer. Just get a great routine to use them with!
Magically,
Website - www.simplymagic.co.uk Twitter - www.twitter.com/simplymagic19 Facebook - www.facebook.com/SeanGoodmanMagician Creator of BDZ, Holidayz, The Grayle, DUO, Secret Servante, Genetics, Vision, Tick Tock, Starstruck, CelebriDate, MagiDate, Focus, SIGMA and R2R |
inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, karnak wrote: If you buy a shell separately and shop for matches you'll save (more than) enough to cover the cost of a Roth set ($105 shipped - http://www.newyorkcoinmagic.net/roth.htm ) |
snowpuppy Veteran user Juneau,Alaska 325 Posts |
I have both,...expanded for most Routines and unexpanded with remilled inserts for my Okito,Boston and Slot Boxes. I found that for the price of Roth's Okito Box Set,(which accepts expanded shells),I could get a nice four unexpanded coin Set. (in my case a Walking Liberty Set from Kueppers) When it comes down to it, (and I'm sure all coin workers will agree),once you start down the gaffed coin road,it gets exspensive.
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algebraic Inner circle 1008 Posts |
You may want to check out "Shell Shocked" by Mark Mason and Bob Swadling.
It's an expanded shell that covers 98 to 100 % of the coin. Yes , I have it. I have the quarter set and the Morgan Dollar set and they are both beautiful. Highly recommended. |
magojose| Regular user 195 Posts |
As far as I know, you could use an expanded one with Rubiales O'Pongo box, you just have to file a little bit the [ sides with a fine sandpaper (just look around elsewhere on the Café for a detailed directions for this).
This is suitable for silver halves, due the box it's made for clad halfs (Kennedy ones). |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
As I have read and learned many coin routines over the years, it really depends on the routine you wish to learn. One gimmick does not fit all tricks or routines. Usually, the author gives the "requirements" he uses for his effect. I have always trusted the author, and not tried to rework a superior routine when certain requirements are given. When I did, I soon learned why the author chose those requirements.
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Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse Inner circle 1513 Posts |
I went with expanded for two reasons. At the time the price and also the ability to replace coins and use the shell in conjunction with other coins
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jordanjohnson Special user Hiding in the Shadows 593 Posts |
I have a question that hopefully someone here can help with. I recently received the Opongo Box and there are a couple routines with expanded half dollar shells. Well the shell I have is too large in diameter to fit inside the box. To my knowledge I don't know of any smaller diameter shells that would be large enough to fit the coin yet small enough to fit inside the box. Any help or advice is appreciated.
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
It also depends what kind of coins your using!!! If you use barbers like I Do, Most are wore Down And not the Same size. So you Are mostly going to have to find 4 of the same size then get a shell made to fit them!
Bobo's started All this! he Said Hold Out your Shell and "borrow " 4 half's!!! Well that is NOT going to happen today! And Most People Don't Even know What a half looks like today!!! But A Expanded is better If you are going To be losing coins. IE. if you work in a dark Bar And drop coins! Replacing them is a lot less work ! So you have to look And see Where you work and who you work for. And go from there! |
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